How to elegantly close high-ticket offers without being salesy with Speaker, Trainer, Author, 7-Figure Business Builder, CEO & Sales Coach Vanessa Horn on Episode #0069

Intro  [0:00]  

EA Interviews, Episode 69. Inspiration, transformation, success stories, and the Imperfect Action Round seven days a week. Join Mario Fachini for today’s Expert Authority Effect Interview.

Mario Fachini  [0:13]  

Have you ever wanted to make more sales? Have you ever wanted to have a classy sales process? Do you feel like you want to help people and give them a transformation, but you don’t want to be salesy? I felt these things. And that’s why I reached out to Vanessa because she helps people do this. She’s a speaker, an author, and she’s built million dollar businesses. It’s very exciting for me to have her here, because I want to bring her to you. I’ve known how great she is over the years. And there are so many people out there that sales is such a vital part of business. But people are scared of it for whatever reason, and you really shouldn’t be, because I tell people that sales is just serving people. You can’t give them a transformation. And you can’t serve them until you get them to say yes. And realistically, they’re the ones choosing to say yes. I tell my own clients, I tell my prospects right before their clients. I go I’m not looking for a yes or no, I’m just looking. I’m not looking to force you into a yes or no. I’m just looking for a decision. If you feel this is good fit, great. If not, no big deal. But she’s going to help you and I’m going to bring her up right after we thank our sponsor.

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Mario Fachini  [1:43]  

Here she is, ladies and gentlemen, Mrs. Vanessa Horn. Vanessa, how are you doing today?

Vanessa Horn  [1:48]  

I’m doing awesome. Thank you so much, Mario. It’s a pleasure to be here. 

Mario Fachini  [1:53]  

I’m excited to have you here. I know what you bring to the table. And I know how many people need it. So tell us what what inspired you to start your company?

Vanessa Horn  [2:02]  

Well, my children are my inspiration. I’ve had three boys. And it was 16 years ago, when I was pregnant with my first. I was at a corporate job. And I said, I have got to find a way to have the time freedom, but somehow replace my six figure corporate income. And there’s brave things that you will do whenever you love your children, and you want to be able to be available for them. So I took a very brave step and started my own business. And as they say the rest is history.

Mario Fachini  [2:37]  

Excellent. So tell us who do you help? And how do you help them?

Vanessa Horn  [2:41]  

Well, my businesses have evolved over the years, but I’ve always helped entrepreneurs to be able to make more income and really make a difference in other people’s lives, in their clients lives, and also be available for their children. I do have an MBA. So I’ve always had a passion for business. But it’s been finding what is that model that most empowers individuals to be able to make that difference and teaching them it’s actually been a couple of different models over the last 16 years that I’ve learned and taught other entrepreneurs. And the current iteration, as you shared in your intro has been as I looked at the thread of these last 16 years, what served me most in building and being able to sell multiple businesses in different industries, was learning the skill set of sales. And I believe it’s one of those areas that as entrepreneurs that we will invest a lot of time and energy and effort in getting masterful at our skill set of whatever it is that we serve clients with. A lot of my clients are service providers. And so what I do is instead of them hiding and being the best kept secret, because they don’t have this sales part of their business nailed down. I support them and getting their light out there in a bigger way, by solving the sales issue by acquiring more clients, and especially acquiring more clients online, and being able to sell more of their premium priced programs and services.

Mario Fachini  [4:23]  

I love that you’ve been doing that. Because one of my passions has always been helping people and we’re giving them the transformations, like I was saying you can’t really dive in and work with someone in granular detail until they’re a client and they’re willing to get to that point. I mean, you can’t just give general information for massive trends. 

Vanessa Horn  [4:45]  

They don’t value it. They don’t value it. And what I’ve experienced was, you know, it was about, let’s see, seven years ago that I made a definitive decision to move into the coaching and the speaking basically representing my own brand online at my previous entrepreneurial ventures were really representing other companies and other brands. But seven years ago, when I launched into this, I knew that I had to support people to be able to, I knew I wanted to get my message out there in a bigger way and I plunked down $40,000 to work with my first coach, I literally took money out of retirement, I remember how I was excited about this new venture and how it was out of my comfort zone. And I believe as much as that coach served me over the next year that we work together, my biggest transformation came when I committed to something that I had said that I wanted, like it was out of my comfort zone to put down much money down, but nobody thinks about if you spend $40,000 on a car, nobody says oh man, what are you doing? They just look at us like, oh, love your car, right? But that’s an expense. But I looked at $40,000 in myself as an investment. And when I put that money down, and then there was no turning back, this was like, burn the bridges, we’re going all in on this thing. And I believe at least 50{d1d47f886dfada3fbec120c845cf21cbf2de07a46032aee93c7c36510b4a5e81} of my transformation came from taking that step of commitment. And having been in that position myself, when I’m on sales conversations with clients, or when I’m serving others to help them to train their teams or themselves be better at enrollment conversations, I say don’t take away the gift of that person committing to themselves of what they say that they really want. Because all day long, we can say, I want six pack abs or I want to create a million dollars in my investment fund or I want to do this or do that, like we can throw around our wants in our desires and our dreams all day long. But how committed are you to making it a reality? And that’s what the cell represents to me is holding the space for your prospect to take inspired action on what they want most. Now, the assumption is that we only allow those prospects that are the right fit, that our service is the right fit for their needs. If not, we point them elsewhere. That’s why when people have any kind of any entrepreneurs have a difficulty enrolling. I’m like if you’re serving them, and you know that if they’re not the right fit, you’re going to serve them by pointing them elsewhere. You never have to be doing this enrollment conversation from a place of guilt or reservation or I don’t want to feel pushy, I don’t want to be salesy. No, you’re servicing them. And even though my program is called the Classy Close, it’s really an opening. It’s an opening where the relationship, when you move into the service delivery the client work that you do, that’s a continuation of the relationship that’s been begun, actually, through the marketing and the sales process.

Mario Fachini  [8:11]  

Let me ask you, what does it make you feel when they don’t want to move forward? And they have some resistance in this and that and you see people that allow that or accept it? How do you coach those people? Because I know you have the prospect, then you have the person who wants to close more, and then they hire you, how do you work them through that?

Vanessa Horn  [8:33]  

Where they’re feeling a sense of… Say that again. Like what’s the self, let’s just say that that person is conducting the enrollment conversation, what’s the challenge they’re having?

Mario Fachini  [8:45]  

They don’t want to push them or they’re feeling some internal resistance to telling their prospect, “Hey, this is in your best interest. This is the transformation you’re going to get.” Essentially, they back down. You know, they do everything to get them right to the end. And then they start backing down, backpedaling, whatever you want to call it.

Vanessa Horn  [9:05]  

Yeah, it’s fascinating because there’s one of my clients, because my company does done for you sales. So not only do we train on sales, but we’re in the trenches doing the sales calls as well. And I just look, I was just listening to one of our new clients at I was listening to one of their sales persons previous calls, this person’s no longer with them because their conversion rate was pretty low. And I listened to this critical point in the conversation where he said, where I could tell he was backing down and he said, “Don’t worry, I’ll send you all these details by email.” And I thought he just lost the sale. He just lost the sale. He was backing down. And he thought, “Well, you know what, I’ll hide behind my computer. I’ll send the details in an email. And hopefully they’ll come back and be a sale.” They won’t. They won’t. And that it wasn’t actually the prospect that was saying no, it was the salesperson who was backing down for whatever might have been going on internally. I think part of what we sense in enrollment conversations is like, “I don’t want to be pushy.” Now, this is where I believe that we become congruent inside of ourselves. So we never feel that feeling. I look at my role to understand how urgent is this issue for this client or this prospect, right? Because they haven’t been enrolled yet. I listen, I find out what’s the pain that they’re experiencing by not getting this solved. I’ll even play devil’s advocate. Because the most general choice that somebody will choose if they don’t enroll and working with you is status quo. Because an object at rest will stay at rest. And unless acted upon by an outside force, an object in motion will stay in motion unless acted upon by an outside force. Inertia is very real in people’s lives. So most people will choose what is comfortable and what they’ve always been doing. So I’ve got to understand how painful is their current reality, is it enough for them to make a change? But from a devil’s advocate perspective, I may even push back and say, “Can I just play devil’s advocate for a moment? And I’ll say, “Why not just keep doing what you’re doing?” I’ll listen for how urgent is this for them to solve it, where the sense of pushing us comes in, is where my sense of urgency is higher than theirs. But if they truly are not happy with their situation, and they want it to change, my act of service is to help them be courageous enough to take action on the unknown, rather than staying in the ambiguous state of what is comfortable, and what is status quo, when status quo is not serving them. So if a salesperson or somebody who’s doing the enrollment conversation can just honor, like honor is a big part of my philosophy in sales, which is like my role is to serve you. Are you ready to change this situation in your life? Are you ready once and for all for this to be changed? If it is, then it’s my duty to serve you in committing to yourself to take action on this. If you’re not ready, that’s okay, too. Because I know that they may be ready a little bit longer down the road. And I can’t tell you how many conversations I’ve had in sales where the person thanks me for the way that the call has been conducted, and how they feel a sense of honor, not that I’ve backed down. But I’ve truly honored and brought to the forefront what is going on in a truthful and honoring manner, in a very sacred manner. I thought I consider it a real honor when I’m finding out from somebody like what would change in your life if you got this that you want? What would really change? Like what are you not enjoying in your life or in your business, that that would allow you to have? And when they tell me things like, “I have not put my daughters to bed over the last two years.” Or when a woman says, “I just married my new husband a year ago. And he’s been begging me to go to the golf course with him in the driving range. And I keep rejecting his desires to do that. And every time at the dinner table, I’m looking at my phone.” Or when a husband says, “I’ve been I’ve been promising my wife a house on the Gold Coast for the last 10 years that we’ve been married. And we’ve never made that a reality.” When they tell me like what it’s really costing them and what it’s really affecting them, I consider it an honor. Like, it’s a treasured moment that they’ve opened up their heart to me and told me what is really going on. And so therefore, I can serve them in knowing like, are you ready, like let’s solve this once and for all and move forward. Or for them to not. And they that’s where I get thanks because people will say like, “Vanessa, thank you for enrolling me in such a way that was just amazing. And I feel amazing.” And I know that even if there are no now that they will remember the way that they felt in that enrollment conversation, and that they could come back later. So I’m not attached to the timing. I’m attached to them getting what they really, really want. And if they’re ready for it, I am not going to be the one who backs down and prevents them from taking action on it.

Mario Fachini  [14:43]  

And you should it. You shouldn’t, no one should. I just gotta say that was powerful. Seriously, I’m like, I gotta ask you though, with all the people you’ve helped over the years, who has been your biggest transformation so far.

Vanessa Horn  [15:04]  

You know, I’ve been always amazed because when I first moved into this online space, like, it’s really remarkable to see, you know, probably one of my first success stories, was several clients that I helped them to, like, get online and package their expertise and create high end clients. And, I remember at first, it was a big deal to help them to create six figures in 90 days, like a cut several success stories that were like six figures in 90 days. And then clients just started creating six figure clients, and then it started to be like, “Okay, now we’re having like six figure days, like it just continues to grow.” So that’s a beautiful thing that I’ve seen, it’s like, these are such transferable skills that are necessary at every level of business, even at multi million dollar business owners that I’ve worked with. And we’ve evaluated their sales processes, because to me, sales is three parts, it includes marketing, because your marketing is doing the pre selling for you. It includes the actual sales enrollment process, everything from when they book an appointment all the way through the reminders and all of that. And I’ve like tweaked one little guys, one step, I just moved one step and he doubled his business from multiple millions to doubling it because of the number of sales he was able to change just in that one step in a sales process. So the sales conversation is that second part of sales. And the third part of sales is the onboarding – is the client experience, because there’s no value in increasing your sales exponentially. And then you’re losing them just as fast on the back end. And so there’s that connection between pre sales, which is marketing, sales, which is actual sales conversation, and then post sales, which is the client experience. And I’ve just seen that all levels of business from starting out to multi million dollar businesses, that it’s been valuable. So I’m excited because I continue to see the results of working with clients as those levels of clients that I continue to work with continues to grow and grow.

Mario Fachini  [17:15]  

It sounds extremely rewarding. And I’m going to ask you, what is one thing that someone could do if they’re listening to this right now? And you’re saying build six figures in 90 days, what’s the most important aspect of that?

Vanessa Horn  [17:30]  

Well, I guess it depends on what their baseline is, are you talking about like if they’re at zero?

Mario Fachini  [17:34]  

Yes.

Vanessa Horn  [17:36]  

They’ve got to have a compelling offer to a clear audience that wants what they have, first and foremost. Then they have to have a way to enroll them, invite them, have an enrollment conversation and convert them. So that’s where you have the offer, you have a means to convert them, and then a way to attract them. So I remember when I came on as an example in this space, the first 18 months I didn’t have, I was taught the methodology of enrollment conversations, right, which you would think that would be able to do well, since my background was in sales. But I did it, I did it wrong. What I did was I thought, well, if I just serve really powerfully in my sessions, then the prospect will say, “How do I work with you?” But what I discovered was I had to have a clear methodology by which I was actually like leading the conversation and it leading to what I was selling them into. And so what I finally turned around that 18 months of creating zero clients online, was when I got clear, okay, “Vanessa, stop messing around. Who are you going to serve? What problem are you going to solve for them? How are you going to solve it? Right? Like, get super, super clear in your offer and only speak to those people. You do not have to serve everybody and their mother on earth. Right? Like, who are you speaking to exactly? And then I did some online marketing, attracted them to in this particular situation, a webinar, but any tool that basically communicates how you can help somebody – share that, and then invite them to a session or you can convert them directly on that webinar. But what’s worked most effectively for me is to enroll them in an enrollment conversation into the program. So that’s the sequence in which I serve clients, if they were going to want to create six figures in the next 90 days is, what’s your core offer? And that’s what I call my create process. How are you going to attract the right clients? That’s what I call market. And then how are you going to enroll them? And that’s what I call sell. So create, market, sell.

Mario Fachini  [19:51]  

Now, let me ask you the flip side of the coin. So that was if someone’s already at zero, what if they’re already doing half a mil a mil or a couple mil?

Vanessa Horn  [19:59]  

What I’ve seen in most cases, that people have overcomplicated their business. My philosophy is have one, two at the most core offers that you are scaling. And what I find is too many people are like, “I’m filling this, I’m filling this, I’m filling this.” The question is, like if I had a dozen clients right now ready to pay you, between $3000 to $100,000 each, what would you sell them into? If you say, “Well, it could be this. It could be this could be this. It could be this.” You have too many offers. So you’ve overcomplicated your business. What happens when you have multiple offers and a scenario like that, in most cases, they’re not set up like an ascension model. So instead, you have a marketing funnel to this one, a marketing funnel to the second one, a marketing funnel to the third, a marketing funnel through the fourth. And now you’ve just overcomplicated your business. So most of the times when I’m working with multiple six figure million dollar, multi million dollar businesses it’s looking at, okay, how can we simplify? And where is the biggest leak in your sales process where you’re losing sales? And we saw that first.

Mario Fachini  [21:16]  

I love it. Because so many people think there’s one magic bullet to all of this. And there’s not it depends where you’re at, what level you’re at. And you know, like you’re saying a confused mind doesn’t make decisions. Now that I got my first 10 client, I see this, now that I got my first 10 clients, or maybe I went from 100 clients to 120 clients, they’re like, now we need to scale this and instead of scaling the process, they’re scaling their offerings. And it just, they’ll lose all of it. 

Vanessa Horn  [21:46]  

Oh yeah, because the very first thing that we’re tempted when we are not getting the sales that we want, whether that is half a million, a million multiple million, well, the very first place that entrepreneurs are tempted to change is their service delivery. That’s the very first thing that their attempted to change.

Mario Fachini  [22:03]  

Why do think that is?

Vanessa Horn  [22:05]  

I think it’s because truthfully, in most cases, at least entrepreneurs that I serve who are service providers, who generally are privately and like their personal brand, who they are personally is tied to the business, it’s their expertise that they’re walking clients through. I think because there is a certain element in those cases different than a product based business or let’s say like a SaaS company, there’s a certain element of their identity is tied into the service delivery. And it’s also like probably what drove them into business in the first place to be an entrepreneur. It’s like, I want to help more people, I want to coach people, I want to help them have this transformation. So when something’s not working, we think well, I need to go change this, I need to go change the offer. Or I need to go change how I serve clients, or let me hire more coaches or let me do this or do that. When in reality, I always say like reserve your creativity for the marketing side of things. Because then you don’t have to change your offer. Because every time you change your offer, it affects the quadrants of sales, marketing, admin and service delivery. Meanwhile, if you just focus on your sales or your marketing, wherever your weakest link is, and to me it is all sales, then you can identify, okay, like that one client who came to me and he paid me a substantial sum for a two day VIP day. And he said, “Vanessa, I want you to help me rewrite my webinar.” And I was like, “Okay.” I sat down with him, I evaluated all his metrics. And I was like, I want to know all the details these metrics from each one of your webinars, he never looked at it. He’d never evaluated the metrics, he’d done hundreds of webinars. And I was like, this one, this one right here is a winner. These are amazing metrics, I want you to put this one on evergreen. And I go, but meanwhile, you have this step in your sales process where you’re asking them for all this financial information. He happened to work with helping people to basically pay down their debt. And he was asking them for all this financial information before they would get on a call with him. And so when we looked at his sales process, his show up rate was so low.

Mario Fachini  [24:29]  

Under 20{d1d47f886dfada3fbec120c845cf21cbf2de07a46032aee93c7c36510b4a5e81}?

Vanessa Horn  [24:35]  

No, it’s higher than that. But I was like, “Dude, we need to like, ask for the financial stuff after you’ve sold them in, okay?” And so we just tweaked that little thing. And he went from selling multiple programs in a single week, which were at $6,000 price point to doubling it, he doubled it with that tiny tweak. So the thing that we sometimes think is the issue where he’s like, “Vanessa, rewrite my webinar.” The webinar is not the problem. It’s this part of your enrollment conversation and your sequence that you have here, let’s change it. And it ended up being like one tiny tweak, doubled his business. So that’s what I like to look at. It’s like, let the numbers talk to us and give us feedback of where’s the weakest link in this chain? And let’s solve that problem first.

Mario Fachini  [25:25]  

Do you feel that entrepreneurs forget, they’re talking to people sometimes and get so caught up with the tech and the metrics and this and that they just…

Vanessa Horn  [25:33]  

No, I don’t think anybody looks at metrics.

Mario Fachini  [25:37]  

Well, that’s the other side of it. I mean, when you’re going through the process, there’s people that like, you’re saying, well, I want all these questions, and I know why he’s doing that. Because you want to have the most productive call you can, but from their perspective, and I’ve seen that in the financial realm, where it’s like, “Hey, you want to have an introductory free call?” And it’s got longer form than the hospital does and it’s like, you do realize you just put a wall, like think where that person’s that.

Vanessa Horn  [26:02]  

Yeah, it’s fascinating, right, to get into the psychology of what has people do what they do. And even when, you know, there’s a book called Predictably Irrational that talks about buying habits for people. So like some of the things that we may deem as that’s kind of salesy, isn’t it to put limiters to say like the first five people get this, or what you say, like there’s a fast action bonus, like, aren’t those things seem kind of marketing, but the truth of the matter is, like we are wired to be predictably irrational. And there’s some of these things that compel us, like a sales price at the store. And we’re like, oh, well, I’m going to save this much money. So I should buy it, that compels us to make these buying decisions. And so I think it’s like, fascinating. To me, that’s part of why I love sales so much is understanding the psychology of people like what would I do in this situation? Like I was talking to a girl, just before getting on with you. And she’s like, “Vanessa, my sales are down, what do I do?” And I was like, well, who do you serve? And I started digging into and I’m like, well, are they brick and mortar? Or are they online businesses? Do they sell products? Or do they sell services? Do they want local audiences? Or do they want national, and like, as I started getting into these nuances, she’s like, I said, you need to speak to those nuances of who you really serve. And she goes I hadn’t, I’m too close to it. I didn’t even realize, but there are distinctions in who I serve. And she started looking at our top clients, and I’m like, speak more to them, you’ll get more of them. So sometimes, it’s just that we’re too close to your own work, you know?

Mario Fachini  [27:44]  

I would have to agree. And that’s why I love coaching people. And that’s why I’ve done the same thing. And you know, I told people a few years ago, I go, when someone asks what you’re willing to risk, and you can’t say it all, you might not be committed enough, so many people say they want it, but how many are willing to do not just what it takes, but whatever it takes to get there?

Vanessa Horn  [28:06]  

Well, it’s a scary proposition. You know, I think as entrepreneurs we’re a little crazy, you know. There’s a quote that says, “Who are those that believe that they’re crazy enough to change the world?” That’s like, how we are wired, you know, the Steve Jobs of the world, like, we have the audacity to believe that like, I can make money, making a difference and being available for my kids. And there’s a certain tenacity and belief that we have that, like, other people would say, “Who do you think you are?” But we’re saying no, I’m going to go after it. And so I think it’s, you know, really, really well, I remember a quote by Brene Brown when I first got started in this business. And she said, “What is worth doing even if you fail?” What is worth doing, even if you fail? And that was a hard question for me to answer, like, would I be willing to fail at this? Because there was a moment that I remember, my biggest fear was that I was going to make my family homeless. Like, that was a legit fear. Because I was putting it all on the line, I was draining our retirement funds, it wasn’t always pretty in this journey. And I remember one moment where we had, I had to pay my team. And one of the biggest thing was like, I never wanted to not be able to pay the invoices to my team. It felt like a second family that I was providing for my own family, but also my team and I fear like, what if I’m not able to pay my team, and I remember this month that I had gotten so bad in my business, that we had no money. We had no money, we had maxed out the credit cards, and I was literally having a conversation with my husband of, “Babe, how much money is in the kids bank account?” It felt like it was one of these shameful moments where I was like, I am literally about to break my kids piggy bank to be able to pay my team. And what ended up happening was I got a cash advance on one of my cards, and I paid it off within a week or two. And we came out okay, but that fear of what if I can’t pay my team? What if I put my family to be in a homeless situation. And I don’t say that lightly. Because as a kid, I literally grew up in a situation where we didn’t have a place to live. So a local church, let us live in their church, we were setting up our bunk beds in the Sunday school rooms. And we had that situation for a year. And we used to, they didn’t have showers at the church. So we had a pool pass to the university pool. And we would go to the pool pass and use the locker rooms to take showers. And when the bus would drop us off. At the church, we would walk down as if we were walking down to one of the neighborhoods. And so people would say, “Where do you live?” And we’d be like, “Down there.” And then we turn around and walk back to the church. It was a hard experience as a middle schooler going through that. And so that felt so close as an entrepreneur that I could put my family in that situation of like, where are we going to live? If we burn through all the money, like, we could legitimately be wondering, are we couch surfing  at your mom’s house? Where would we go? And that was, you know, I think that’s when you say like, are you committed that you’re willing to do it all? Those are real fears that show up in the minds of entrepreneurs to say like, what’s the worst case scenario that could happen? And we deal with those thoughts when things don’t go well in our business. And that’s why I think it’s amazing, the people who are courageous enough who say, “You know what, I have the audacity to go after it. And I want that more than entertaining the fear. I want to make a difference in lives of individuals more than I’m willing to entertain the fear that I would be homeless.” And actually, I realized, you know, I was like, “Well, if I did end up homeless, I would, I know me, I would turn that homeless shelter around. I got connections in the bedding industry. So I get us luxury beds donated. And then like other homeless shelters would probably contract me out to consult how we turned around this homeless shelter.” So I was like, in the end I’ll be okay.

Mario Fachini  [32:38]  

You turn it into getting more clients, wouldn’t you?

Vanessa Horn  [32:42]  

I get more homeless shelter clients.

Mario Fachini  [32:45]  

I’m not making light of the situation, because I think it’s all awesome. You moved past that, and can now inspire and help others. I do want to ask what you said, you know, the desire to be where you want to be and have that belief is greater than the fear, is that one of the ways you move past it?

Vanessa Horn  [33:02]  

Always, always, always. When there’s something that I say that I want, but there’s something I can tell is holding me back, I would say like there’s competing commitments right now. There’s competing values. So I make myself choose. “Which one is more important to you, Vanessa?” Is it more important to you to feel safe and not put yourself out there because you don’t want to be criticized?” Or is it more important to you to give voice to what you’ve been through in case one other person’s lives can be changed? Is it more important to you to have the comfort of, “Oh, I don’t know. I don’t know, cutting coupons and trying to live on a modest income.” Or be willing to like, figure out this game of entrepreneurship, and basically the system it takes to be successful in your particular industry. Like which one and so when you make those choices, yes, it’s a very real, we can have the fear of going homeless. But what’s more important, to protect against that? Like, is your safety and security more important to you or making a difference? Like, ultimately, is those kinds of choices that we’ve got to present. And I always tell people, there’s no bad choice. But be honest with yourself, like, which one is more important to you? And then take action on the one that you value most.

Mario Fachini  [34:31]  

So it sounds like you can, you fully believe you can profit with honor?

Vanessa Horn  [34:35]  

Yes, thank you. For those who are not aware, that is the title of one of my books, and one of my programs. Yes, 100{d1d47f886dfada3fbec120c845cf21cbf2de07a46032aee93c7c36510b4a5e81}.

Mario Fachini  [34:45]  

I’m very thankful you’re sharing this because I was holding back not to tear up, but you touched home with me for a couple of things you were saying. And I felt the passion. And so many people, it’s like, you do everything to get to that end point. And then when they get there, it’s so rare for them, because they’re just used to going in the beginning stages over and over and over and over. What do you do when you get there? It’s absolutely scary. But that’s when you have to go, do I believe in what I believe? And am I going to help people? Or am I going to you know, backpedal or whatever.

Vanessa Horn  [35:17]  

Yeah, and the thing about it is like, we think that somehow when we arrive at some destination, that it all of a sudden clicks, and we don’t have any more fears, or we don’t have any more concerns. And what I’ve discovered is like we have this gift of imagination, that’s all that it is, a gift of imagination. And that gift of imagination, and fear is just being used to create a worst case scenario. That’s all it is. It’s the same gift of, of imagination. But look at how many times things turned out amazing for you, looked at how many times things turned out better than you wanted them to look at how many times you created what you wanted to do. And I have people like write down and I do this for myself, I’ll put a list of index cards to collect evidence for my brain that, “Listen, I have made things happen before that I wanted to.” Like there’s no reason that this new thing that I’m going after can’t be a reality. It’s just new, it’s uncomfortable. It’s out of my comfort zone. But here’s all the evidence that I have for my brain to be reminded like, you can do this. You’ve done scary things in the past. And it just says that sense of courage because I can’t tell you there’s been many times I’ve built my businesses to multiple millions. And the crazy fear that shows up there is what if it all goes away? Like, what if it all goes away, like your imagination can play out like one wrong move and it all comes crumbling down. And so it’s just like, it’s just being mindful that, okay, our brain is trying to play tricks on us to play safe. But remind your brain of the evidence of things that you’ve gone after, and you’ve made a reality or when things may be turned out not the way that you wanted to, but they turned around for good. There’s a certain sense of open handedness that I have a little bit more of my journey now, being a little bit more mature as an entrepreneur, you know, in my mid 40s, at this juncture, where I’m like, okay, it’s not all going to happen according to plan. But sometimes even when it doesn’t look like it’s great, there’s usually something amazing. And I always say, Okay, what why is this happening? What is the insight? What is the shift? Like, I’ll be honest, there was a time that I had a very challenging health challenge that I didn’t even have the energy to get on the phone and do strategy sessions and do enrollment conversations. Now, that’s what I love, right? Like, I’m the queen of high end sales. But what I found was I didn’t have the energy to get on the phone and to close the sales. But at the same time, I had to keep my business going. And I remember calling one of my coaches and saying like, “Oh my god, what am I going to do, I don’t have the energy. This is our revenue goal for the month, I don’t have the energy, I don’t have my salesperson anymore.” And he goes, “Vanessa, all I know about you is that every time that you’re faced with a challenge, you usually come up with an innovative idea.” And I remember asking myself that month. I wonder if I can enroll them into this high end program without doing a session and doing a one too many sale to enroll them. And I did. And I did, I figured out a way to get people into a virtual workshop and in essence, be able to enroll them without ever having to get on the phone. So I went to figure it out that particular high end sales tech strategy, nobody else had ever taught me that. But by being in a state where physically I couldn’t even get on the phone. And so my brain was forced to find a new solution. And now that’s been a huge blessing in my business. So even when things don’t go according to plan, where’s the blessing? Where are you being stretched to come up with an innovative solution that you might not have otherwise seen? And so I’m a little bit more open handed in evaluating like, “Okay, this isn’t going according to plan, what is supposed to happen now that I might not otherwise have been open to?”

Mario Fachini  [39:30]  

The blessing in disguise. And now you found a new way that no one may be talking about or just a new way that’s better for you at the very least. You know, you’ve got a great family, you’ve got friends, you can only take so many calls per week. You know, everyone goes I want 100 new sales calls. But it’s like, do you really? Could you handle it? What’s your onboarding process? What’s the enrollment? How much time you got?

Vanessa Horn  [39:55]  

Yeah. Yeah.

Mario Fachini  [39:58]  

So when we were talking about, when we’re talking about Profit With Honor, tell me what the book has done for your business. The books I should say.

Vanessa Horn  [40:08]  

Well, Profit With Honor was based on a program, actually my first program that I launched online, which was at the time, I served exclusively the network marketing industry. And I had built to the top in that industry. And the tagline of the book is ‘How to get to the top in your industry without burning out, selling out, or losing out.’ And it’s based on three principles, honoring yourself first. Because so many of the things that we experience as discomforts in business, is because we haven’t learned to honor ourselves as an example. If my no is no. And I can trust myself that when I say no, I really mean no. And I don’t say yes, to try to please somebody, then I can hold the space and a sales conversation for them to speak what is true for them. Is it really a no? You do not have to say yes, for me. And that’s an example of when we honor ourselves, we can honor somebody else, like there’s an integrity of the way that we’re showing up, that brings out the best in somebody else. So the second part is honoring others. And that means honoring somebody, if they’re not, their sense of urgency isn’t greater than mine They’re not ready. They’re not ready, and I’m not going to push it. And then the third is honor the process. And that’s what I teach are the processes and the procedures around like really building your business, particularly looking at the sales processes from marketing, sales through client enrollment.

Mario Fachini  [41:44]  

Well, those are some great tips there. And I’m so glad you’re sharing it.

Vanessa Horn  [41:47]  

From my business, I’ll tell you, the biggest thing was when I committed to serving a specific industry, and to serving them in a particular way, that program launched, I was able to use the transcription of the course as a manuscript for my book, like that was my repurpose content, strategy. And that year, it was pretty remarkable like the before and after of just taking like, I know your your work is authority, like really building your authority, just taking a stand of who do you serve, what problem you solve for them. And being clear with that messaging. No kidding. And a year of launching that program and the manuscript that came and became a book, I was invited on those TV interviews that you see on that reel that you played, I was invited to speak in front of an audience of 15,000 people in Asia. I mean, I was literally on my dream board to speak in front of big, huge stadium of people. And there, I found myself and I took a picture because I was like, this is so crazy that this exactly matches the picture that was on my dream board. And I was interviewed on podcasts and being asked to be on summits like these kinds of things of people knowing, “Oh, that’s what you’re about.” And they get your value proposition. And they get your distinctions and your philosophies and your premise of why you believe what you do versus other solutions that might be in the market. And so it just opened up, I think all these opportunities of speaking and being on interviews and clients as a result that I wouldn’t have otherwise gotten. So that would be the value of creating a program in a book.

Mario Fachini  [43:37]  

What about speaking on stages, I remember when you did that, and I was just so happy for you. What has speaking done for your business?

Vanessa Horn  [43:45]  

I used to do a ton of speaking. I’ve done a ton of speaking in my career. In the recent years, I’ve been more of a homebody, but I’m very selective about this speaking opportunities that I take on now. But I do love it. It’s such a high to serve an audience in that way and to meet them up close and personal. It’s always one of those things that just expands your career, opens up more speaking opportunities, has people see you as an authority. It’s definitely, if that’s something you enjoy, or something that you want to learn how to enjoy by getting the right training, it is an amazing, an amazing way to make a difference in people’s lives.

Mario Fachini  [44:36]  

I would have never guessed that you seem so shy.

Vanessa Horn  [44:40]  

I’m an introvert. Now.

Mario Fachini  [44:44]  

You nailed it, though. You’re just being more selective with it.

Vanessa Horn  [44:47]  

Yeah, that’s all that it is. Because I used to travel like once a month, and now I travel more like five or six times a year. So it’s just be more selective.

Mario Fachini  [44:58]  

I’ve done very much the same thing. It’s like you don’t need to. I think a lot of people think they have to be everywhere in real life all the time to be like they’re doing something. And that’s not the case. You should be more selective.

Vanessa Horn  [45:10]  

No, you just reverse engineer that you call it visioneering. What do you want your life to look like? And create that picture and what you say yes to and what you say no to and how you create your business to support your lifestyle, not the other way around. And say, like someday, like for me, the calendar to me reflects my goals. If it meant I wanted to eat lunch with my kids every Friday, that was on the calendar, if it means I’m going to the gym every morning, it’s on the calendar, if it means I’m going to a massage on Friday afternoons, it’s on the calendar. So whatever is important to you, put it into your calendar, and how might you build your business around that.

Mario Fachini  [45:57]  

I like that. I think a lot more people need to design their life the way they want it and not just accept, “Oh, here’s the way it is.” And I’m glad you’re…

Vanessa Horn  [46:06]  

Especially as entrepreneurs, because otherwise we’ll always be on, it’s a little bit more challenging to separate our personal lives from our business. Like we’re thinking about if we’re not careful all the time. They’re just encroach on our personal lives. And so therefore, you’ve got to block off those personal times and what you want your life to really look like if it means, like for me, part of my business plan is going to exotic locations to run retreats. I have a high end sales retreat on the books for the year 2021 in an island off of Spain that is already on the books, because that’s my goal, but that’s the summer that serves my family best. And so it’s like, “Okay, well, but it’s already deposits made.” I know the marketing plan, all of that. But it’s because that’s part of what I want my life and business to look like. Just build it in.

Mario Fachini  [47:07]  

I like that. So I got one fun question for you before we go to the Imperfect Action Round. And the whole thing is fun 60 second rapid fire questions. But I always ask people, I’m calling it the Expert Authority Roller Coaster because stuff happens. You know, people have different viewpoints and everything, but yours because of what we’re discussing, I’m going to ask you about music. Who is your favorite musician? And who would you love to have a conversation with or play on stage with?

Vanessa Horn  [47:41]  

Oh, my goodness. Well, I just recently watched the voice. This is spring 2019 that you and I are after spring 2019 we’re having this

Mario Fachini  [47:56]  

Are you sure it was the voice though?

Vanessa Horn  [47:58]  

it was the voice. Malin Okay, was the winner. Maelyn was the winner. She hasn’t even like, she probably hasn’t even put out any albums now. Because it’s just June, the show just wrapped up a month or so ago. To me she is amazing, amazing, amazing. She has a challenge where she’s deaf in one year. And her story is amazing. Because she was a waitress up in New York City, her family had moved there to help her learn music in Broadway. And she’d almost given up. She’d almost given up on her dream. And she end up going on The Voice. Extraordinary voice, look her up doing the song Stay by Rihanna, the best rendition of that song. And I just, it would just be awesome to interview her spend time with her during this immersion, this transition and like what it felt like in those moments when she was about to give up and like what’s next. Like I don’t know, this was super good, exciting for me. So I would name somebody like her who’s not yet known. But I know will be.

Mario Fachini  [49:06]  

That is awesome. There’s a lot of inspiring people out there. And I appreciate you for sharing that. Because they don’t have to be just entrepreneurs, they can be anywhere. And I’m always looking out for just cool people that are inspiring, and they have the entrepreneurial spirit.

Vanessa Horn  [49:24]  

Well, you and I have the conversation about what one of my new shows, it’s my favorite is called Songland because they’re collaborating together and they’re creating together. And it’s just extraordinary to see that spark of genius is happening with these people that are having fun. I mean, you could say they’re doing serious work, right? Like they’re talking about that song is a house song because it’s going to be paying for your house. And like these big outcomes that can come from this collaboration. So it’s serious work, but they’re having so much fun and enjoying themselves and doing that in collaboration. And that’s what I see entrepreneurship as, is you know, we’re creators, there’s collaboration, and so many entrepreneurs are feeling so low and lonely and working on there by themselves in their businesses or at home and that’s a very big epidemic – is the loneliness at the top in entrepreneurship. But that’s what I believe it could look like, is like Song Land where we’re working in collaboration having fun together. So I appreciate that we’ve been able to do this together.

Mario Fachini  [50:33]  

I’m in full agreement with you one of the things back in high school, people were like, “What do you want to do?” I literally said I want to get paid to have fun.

Vanessa Horn  [50:43]  

Oh my gosh. You’re an enneagram seven aren’t you?

Mario Fachini  [50:49]  

I need to look that stuff up. I’ve been hearing more and more… Where did that come from? I’ve been hearing more and more people even at church. The pastor talked about it. And I was like what is this thing?

Vanessa Horn  [51:00]  

Enneagram is…

Mario Fachini  [51:01]  

Is it new?

Vanessa Horn  [51:02]  

No, it’s not. It’s based on ancient wisdom. But it gives you insight to basically your subconscious drivers. Like what takes over, what are your motivators that you don’t even realize is the way that you’re driven in life. And there’s the seven, is fun, like they just love, like stimulus and new things and fun. And so I would guarantee you’re probably high on your seven.

Mario Fachini  [51:26]  

It sounds like, have you heard of Wired That Way by Marita Littauer?

Vanessa Horn  [51:32]  

No, that’s so fascinating.

Mario Fachini  [51:33]  

It’s about the personality types. And it sounds like the sanguine personality type. Life of the party. There’s a cool story in the book about that. But I’ll save that when we come back for the Imperfect Action Round.

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Mario Fachini  [52:02]  

All right, and we are back with the Imperfect Action Round. Vanessa, are you ready to take Imperfect Action?

Vanessa Horn  [52:09]  

Yeah, let’s go.

Mario Fachini  [52:11]  

The first question I have for you, 60 second answers or less. What is the fastest path to the cash?

Vanessa Horn  [52:18]  

Pick up the phone and call somebody you want to work with.

Mario Fachini  [52:23]  

I like it. What is the biggest problem you see your prospects making in the fastest way they can change it?

Vanessa Horn  [52:33]  

Over complicating things; simplify and multiply.

Mario Fachini  [52:38]  

Oh, I like that. All right, number three. And I was smiling when we were talking earlier on because you’re gonna love this one. What is the best way to maximize customer lifetime value?

Vanessa Horn  [52:51]  

Have a clear path. When they say yes to your first offer, where are they going next? How are you going to serve them? When are you going to have the renewal conversation? How are you conducting that? What problem are you going to solve in phase two of them working with you and how’s that layer upon what you’re going to do in phase one. That just doesn’t happen accidentally. But if you spend time intentionally creating that, then you can design that path. And it makes it easier for your customers to say yes to continue working with you.

Mario Fachini  [53:22]  

I love it. I love it. So the next one is about books, what book has made the biggest impact on your life?

Vanessa Horn  [53:32]  

Recently, one of the books has made the biggest impact in my life is a book called Family Wealth. And it’s a book by James Hughes Jr. And the reason why was because it talks about wealth being three things. The first being obviously the financial, right, which a lot of us as entrepreneurs, we’re mindful of the contribution we’re making to our households or being able to set up for our retirement or businesses that our kids can take over. And so financial is always a given when you think about wealth, but he brings to light two huge things that were instrumental and my life, one the wealth of relationships, your kids seeing, and you’re giving them the family wealth of relationships, and thirdly, intellectual property. And that’s where I love because I help clients to package their expertise. So the intellectual property that you pass on as well to your children and to your generations.

Mario Fachini  [54:34]  

That sounds like a good one. Thank you for recommending it. Where can people find you?

Vanessa Horn  [54:41]  

Well, the best would probably go to VanessaHorn.com, VanessaHorn.com. But if others are saying like how do I get specifically around these high end strategies? How do I get more high end clients online, and I want to help Vanessa around this, like marketing, the enrollment conversation and serving clients so I can maximize the lifetime value. Then I have a free workbook and a video training that I do if you go to WebinarWithVanessa.com, and I do a more in depth training than we were able to cover today.

Mario Fachini  [55:16]  

Excellent. Well, I will make sure it goes on to the show notes on EAInterviews.com so the links are on there and people can check it out. And I just want to say thank you Vanessa. It has been an absolute pleasure and I loved what you shared. I wish we could go for you know do a half day training and everything because I know how powerful you are. But this was action packed and I just want to say thanks.

Vanessa Horn  [55:39]  

So fun. Thank you so much for having me. Hey, that’s the business right? Like you said, Can we just get paid to have fun? Let’s do it. Then we did.

Mario Fachini  [55:48]  

We are. We are. Thanks again and I look forward to seeing you soon.

Vanessa Horn  [55:53]  

Likewise.

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