Growth Marketing: Developing And Executing Best-In-Class Marketing And eCommerce Strategies With Right Side Up Founder Tyler Elliston on Episode #0261

Tyler Elliston [0:00]
This is Tyler Elliston. You can find me at RightSideUp.com and you’re listening to EA Interviews.

Intro [0:05]
EA interviews, Episode 261, inspiration, transformation, success stories and the Imperfect Action Round seven days a week. Join Mario Fachini for today’s Expert Authority Effect Interview.

Mario Fachini [0:19]
Marketing, one of my favorite things to talk about why it’s so vitally important to you and your business. You might be loving marketing like I do and helping people launch stuff or you might absolutely hate it. Do you have a new book coming up? And you just don’t want to talk about it? And you’re gonna put out a notification that says, hey, I have a new book. The day of with no pre planning, not a good idea. But what do you do when you feel like you’ve been failed by outside agencies? That’s why I’m excited to have Tyler on the show. Tyler Elliston. He’s been a consultant for Google, Doordash, Stitch, Sephora. He knows what he’s talking about. We’re gonna be diving into all of these things and help you with your business right after we thank our sponsor,

Sponsor – Free Business Book Publishing Course [1:09]
Every business needs a book, including yours, visit FreeBusinessBookPublishingCourse.com today to learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. Once again, that’s FreeBusinessBookPublishingCourse.com.

Mario Fachini [1:25]
Here he is. Ladies and gentlemen, Tyler Elliston. Tyler, How’re you feeling today?

Tyler Elliston [1:29]
Pretty well, thanks for having me.

Mario Fachini [1:31]
Oh, I’m excited to dive right in. Because I know you’ve helped so many people with the marketing, and it’s so vitally important, but why do you feel like you were failed by the outside agencies?

Tyler Elliston [1:44]
Yes, good question. I think so. So there’s a couple layers to that answer. One is that talent level, so I worked with agencies where I just felt like the quality of the people I was working with weren’t at the level that I wanted. And then sometimes it was more structural. So like, you know, signing 12 month contracts, when, you know, I wasn’t sure if something was going to work. And I might test something for a month. And if it doesn’t work, I’d want to do something else. It was locked in, you know, percentage of spend, you know, payments sometimes make sense. Other times it really didn’t. So I just, I found more success with marketing when I was either doing it myself, or, you know, or building in house teams to do it.

Mario Fachini [2:34]
What would you say for the people who, you know, I was joking a little bit in the intro, because I find there’s really two types of people. One is like us, we love marketing and promoting stuff. And, you know, I love helping my author clients with their business book campaigns. But there’s other people who I don’t want to touch, I want more business, I want more revenue, I want all these things. I want to be at that point where I started the business but I don’t want to talk about it or annoy people. How do you help us get past that?

Tyler Elliston [3:05]
Yeah, well, I think, you know, the good news is, I think the most important and most valuable marketing is actually a great product. So if you have a great product that people fundamentally love, in most cases, that means they’ll talk about it. And so a lot of times your customers will do it for you. So that’s the good part of the answer. The negative part of the answer is that, you know, if you don’t do marketing, you’re just almost certainly leaving a lot of opportunity on the table. And so I would just advocate to sort of either get some help externally or, you know, find a way to do it yourself in a way that you feel like is authentic to your personality and business but still still promoting this product or solution that you, you know, deeply, deeply believe in?

Mario Fachini [3:57]
Can you take us through your process, what you’re doing with these big name companies and also some of the people we may not have heard of?

Tyler Elliston [4:05]
Yeah, so. So the way that we operate is kind of like a collective of marketers across a wide variety of industries and skill sets. And so we’ll talk to companies about what kind of, you know, what kind of challenges are having specific to customer acquisition? And we’re kind of identifying, okay, in this situation, we think that this particular skill set this particular seniority would help you get to the next level. And then we’re providing somebody from our collective that has that expertise. And so, you know, sometimes the scope of those engagements is advertising on Facebook or Google, sometimes it’s advertising on podcasts, sometimes it’s email marketing to increase lifetime value. So the scope is really varied, you know, across our clients, but the one consistent part is that we’re solving a marketing problem usually around acquiring customers sometimes around lifetime value. And then we’re sort of staffing it, you know, with a very specialized person that’s going to build a tailored solution rather than sort of applying a really generic playbook.

Mario Fachini [5:23]
When most people, would you say most of your clients are looking, you said, a client acquisition, but would you say most of your clients are looking for increased sales profit or is it really anything else?

Tyler Elliston [5:37]
Yeah , most of them, I would say more than half of our clients are sort of backed by venture capital, they’re kind of like trying to grow as fast as they can. And so usually, it’s around growth first. Certainly, in recent years, we’ve seen more importance put on profitable customer acquisition certainly years ago, it was growth even at the expense of profitability. That is a lot. Yeah, that’s quite rare at this point. But growth is the primary challenge for helping themselves.

Mario Fachini [6:15]
Now, when you’re saying growth at the expense of profitability? Yeah, I’ve heard, seen companies do this. And it’s always been questionable, because correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the premise we might lose a little money here or a lot, but we’re setting ourselves up down the road?

Tyler Elliston [6:32]
Yes, yeah. So I would say sort of, you know, one level of this is saying, well over a customer’s lifetime, they’re going to be worth, let’s say, $200 to us, even though in the first month or the first three months, they’re only going to pay us 50. So the question is, you know, are you willing to pay $25 for that customer or that sale or $50? You know, for that whole three months or, you know, some would say, well, let’s just front 190. You know, because we’ll get 10, we’ll wait it out, we’ll get referrals. And then, you know, this doesn’t really happen much anymore. But at one time, it was even like, hey, you know, we’ll pay 300 because we’re doing product development. And we know that a year from now, though, they won’t be worth 200, they’ll be worth 1000. So, you know, you can sort of play a lot of, you know, a lot of games to sort of justify, you know, acquiring that customer, you know, grabbing as much sort of real estate in the market as possible but really on attractive economics.

Mario Fachini [7:41]
That’s a very polite way of saying it.

Tyler Elliston [7:43]
Yeah. Yes.

Mario Fachini [7:44]
On attractive economics.

Tyler Elliston [7:46]
Yes.

Mario Fachini [7:47]
I like that. So I think one of the traps I’ve seen is, if you say, well, let’s lose the money here, we’ll make it up down the road. Well, is that two years, three years, five years, 10? Whatever the case is? And do you feel it sets a precedent to just do it again. Like if you go short this year and then you go three years from now, five years from now? Well, one day, how much of a profit are you making? Because maybe in year five or six, you just go the second you get turned it around? I kind of equate it to like the people who jump from a car lease to the next one to the next one. It’s like, when do you get to enjoy it?

Tyler Elliston [8:27]
Yes.

Mario Fachini [8:28]
The profitability or the free time where it goes, okay, it’s higher here, it’ll go down. But if there’s too short of a time period, you’re just constantly going from it. I mean, you have to be economically viable.

Tyler Elliston [8:41]
Yes.

Mario Fachini [8:42]
Every every year, I would say,

Tyler Elliston [8:44]
Well, that’s a prudent perspective.

Mario Fachini [8:48]
Depending on the person maybe you go, we’ll take less of it. But to be going backwards.

Tyler Elliston [8:53]
Yes. Yeah. And that certainly is the prevailing sentiment. Now, you know, I don’t think any of the clients we’re working with today, you know, would disagree with that at all. You know, the other sort of downside of doing that, yes, you don’t get to sort of enjoy the, you know, the margins but it can also cause you to really avoid looking at, like real, real questions about product market fit. Like, you know, are you solving a real problem? Do you have a real solution to that? And I think a lot of companies, you know, call it 10, 15 years ago, what kind of avoid asking themselves that hard question by just saying, oh, well, we’re growing, we’re growing, we’re growing like customers are hiring us. But obviously, if, you know, if it’s not profitable, it doesn’t you know, it’s not going to matter long term.

Mario Fachini [9:48]
What’s the first thing that you take someone through when they’re coming on board with you, and how long are you traditionally working with them for?

Tyler Elliston [9:57]
Yeah, so. So the first thing we’re doing with them, you know, once they hire us really depends a lot on the scope, usually we’re looking at what they’ve done in the past from a customer acquisition standpoint. So assuming they’re hiring us to, you know, help them get more sales, we’re looking at, you know how they’ve executed their Facebook ads, or Google ads, or SEO. So we’re starting with an audit, typically. And then we’re, you know, making recommendations or sort of identifying, you know, what’s the gap between where they’re at, and what’s best in class, and then sort of sequencing, okay, you know, these 10 things, these 10 steps that you need to take to get the best in class, here are the three that we think are of the highest likelihood of getting you there, you know most quickly, you know, I think before we ever start working with them, we really are trying to evaluate that product market fit, because a lot of a lot of people and I say this, as somebody who’s started a company that failed. This was my problem, I thought I had a marketing problem. And that my product was great. In reality, I had a product problem, what I was actually selling was not, you know, was not good enough. And we do sometimes see, see companies or individuals come to us and ask for marketing help. And, you know, we kind of view it as an issue of integrity to say, well, look, based on what we’re hearing, like we really don’t think this is a marketing problem. And so that’s, that’s really the first step that we go through.

Mario Fachini [11:30]
Do you say you have a product problem?

Tyler Elliston [11:32]
Yes. Yes. So those are uncomfortable, but But honestly, we, you know, we’ve had those kinds of conversations, and then, you know, six months, 12 months later, they’ll come back and say, you know, you were right, we did we tweak this, you know, now does it make sense? We’re like, yeah, no, no, it makes sense.

Mario Fachini [11:51]
And that’s so invaluable. And I’m glad you are doing it that way because they could go another two, three years, four years, five years, maybe even longer and just kept doing it the wrong way.

Tyler Elliston [12:04]
Totally and…

Mario Fachini [12:05]
What’s that cost them?

Tyler Elliston [12:06]
Yeah, a ton. And it says, It sets us up for failure as their partner. Right? You know, it’s very hard for marketing to look really good if the core product or the core solution is not strong. And so yeah, we want to make sure we’re set up for success. And so that’s sort of a prerequisite for us as well.

Mario Fachini [12:06]
I want to ask you, how did you get into this? Why did you choose marketing? And what’s the backstory behind all your success?

Tyler Elliston [12:42]
That’s a good question. I’ve always been an entrepreneur, I mean, I’ve started a company in high school and started coming in college, you know, just always entrepreneurial marketing in particular.I mentioned that I had a failed startup in my background.I started that company and did that for two and a half years, it ended up failing. And at that point, I was kind of like, gosh so who hires like a generalist that wants to do entrepreneurship. And so I felt like I needed to sort of pick a functional area to kind of hang my hat on. And so it was like, okay, well, what am I most enjoyed what I think I’m good at. And despite the fact that I had just, you know, failed in this company, where I thought it was a marketing problem, I still said, you know, I think marketing is my strength, I think that’s where I know the most. And so that’s, I kind of double down on that skill set. And then, you know, second, you know, next startup, I ran marketing for them and that got acquired and then that company that acquired us got acquired, and then just sort of jumped from company running, you know, running customer acquisition.

Mario Fachini [13:59]
So, it really is your passion, and I love that you’ve found the positive, despite the negative.

Tyler Elliston [14:08]
Totally, yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, that failure was the best learning experience of my career and ultimately has been sort of the seed for everything I’m doing now, you know, like, our, our vision for right side up is to help very expressly you know, people that are in that situation that I was in, right, the founder, who has a customer acquisition problem and needs marketing help and they need somebody to be honest enough with them to tell them if they think it’s really a product problem instead of a marketing problem. That’s exactly what I needed. So in a lot of ways, right side up is kind of coming full circle and just building what I wish I had had, you know, in that experience.

Mario Fachini [14:58]
What would you say to someone Who is on the fence about trying something new that you’ve mentioned? You had mentioned some of the Facebook ads and different things like that out of all the things in the world of marketing because I don’t know about you, but it seems endless. What do you say to someone who’s fearful of doing it because they were slighted in the past?

Tyler Elliston [15:20]
Yeah.

Mario Fachini [15:21]
Let me rephrase that not slated, they got screwed in the past or burnt?

Tyler Elliston [15:26]
Yeah, I think. So a few thoughts on that. One, you know obviously the partner matters a lot, you know, who’s helping you who’s shepherding you through it, I would always advocate to go find, even if it’s not like, it’s not self promotion, even if it’s a friend who knows about it, or a coach or somebody that has that kind of job at a company and they can just give you unbiased recommendations or help to do that, I would always advocate for experimentation and keeping the stakes low, Facebook advertising, search advertising for most businesses you can get a read on if they’re working for you without a huge amount of spend. And I think I would always recommend trying it, if you have reason to believe that the problem was the execution rather than the channel then keep giving it a go. That’s not to suggest, you know, if somebody feels like it was done well, and it just didn’t work. And by all means, you know, try something different. Otherwise, you can spend a lot of money on Facebook and Google without seeing a lot of results.

Mario Fachini [16:44]
Yeah, no one wants to do that. But you do have to test it. You know, I’ve told people for years, you want to do at least a month, ideally, five or six weeks of just, you know, data, get the data, so you can make the most educated decision and everything. And if you’re not willing to invest, what you’re asking other people to invest in your product, figuring it out, maybe that’s the problem.

Tyler Elliston [17:10]
Yes. Correct. And you know, you talked about data sort of gathering exploration, I would double down on that, you know, with the initial testing, it really is, you know, the goal of that ought to be to understand what’s possible, we see a lot of companies that, you know, the first two weeks, three weeks, it doesn’t, a channel does not perform for them. And so they turn it off. But a lot of times, it’s about learning and optimizing and evolving the way that you’re approaching the channel. So like, paid search, for example, you know, you might be bidding on 30 keywords. And so you might spend, I don’t know, say $1,000 on these keywords. And at the end of that time period, you know, it might be that 75% of the keywords don’t work. And so when you look at the total spin and the total impact, it looks like it doesn’t work. But when you drill into those 25% of the keywords that do work, you know, those economics might really work. And if you just turn off the 75%, then you’ve got something that’s really working for you. So, so a lot of times, it’s just about that sort of printing of, you know, either audiences or keywords, whatever it may be for that particular channel.

Mario Fachini [18:28]
It’s a great point, because you might not be one size fits all, but even if five of them are popping, you know, throw all the money at those five.

Tyler Elliston [18:38]
Yes, exactly. Exactly. And so that was it. That’s exactly the kind of thing we talked about with ongoing optimization of channels; it rarely is performing well, when you first started doing it.

Mario Fachini [19:00]
So, here’s the magic question. How do you like it if you want to quit in weeks two or three? And maybe you need to get to the tipping point in week, four and a half? You don’t want to come up too short. But how do you discern, okay, it really isn’t working, I need to try something drastically different versus, you know, in weeks, four or 5, 6, 7, 8, maybe even nine or 10? How do you discern? Should I go further or I’m already going further, how much further to figure it out? Like when do you know it’s not working at all two months, three months, maybe three weeks? And you’re just throwing a lot of money at it and nothing’s clicking or?

Tyler Elliston [19:45]
That is the magic question. And, you know, there’s sort of a straightforward answer to that and a complicated one. The straightforward answer is, you know, if you’re looking for a cost per order Let’s say, of $10 you know, and you spend $100 and you get no sales, that’s probably evidence enough that, you know, it’s not going to work, you know, the likelihood that it will work and you just got an unlucky, you know, first first, like 10 shots at it, you know, is very, very low. On the other hand, if if you’re, you know, call it within, within 50%, of where you want to be, you know, if you want to be at $10, and you’re at $20, something like that, you know, that’s, that’s when I would say, okay, let’s keep testing, there’s so many different inputs that you can use in most digital channels, like with Facebook, it’s like, okay, well, maybe we keep going, but maybe we test new creative, you know, or if it’s paid search, it’s like, okay, maybe we keep going or maybe we turn off these keywords and turn on those keywords. And so, you know, if you’re getting some response, it’s just not good enough, then I would typically recommend, you know, changing some of the variables. If it’s not working at all, then, you know, I turn it off.

Mario Fachini [21:12]
So, after you’ve changed the variables, if you do another week or two, and it’s like, okay, I’ve done everything I can, short of getting help with it. Don’t go spend 10s of 1000s of dollars, just oh, maybe it’s, you know, change, you know, book publishing versus book publishers. You know, I see people that just add an s on to every keyword they have, it’s like, your ad might be trash. Switch, like you said, switch the creative, or maybe the audience, you know, you could be it could be a great ad great copy. Great everything wrong audience.

Tyler Elliston [21:51]
Yes, exactly. Exactly. So yeah, I mean, keep churning through the variables. I would say that, you know, it’s rare that we see relatively few companies spend, you know, more than call at $10,000. Without, like, real signal that a channel can work for them. So certainly to anyone out there, I would treat that as a general cap.

Mario Fachini [22:22]
That’s the litmus testing.

Tyler Elliston [22:24]
Yeah. I mean, there are certainly exceptions. You know, sometimes, like in a b2b context, if you’re, you know, if a client is worth, you know, $5,000 to you, because it’s like a mid market company or an enterprise company, you might need to pay $300 per lead. In which case, yeah, certainly in that environment 10k with, you know, it’ll only get you what 20, 30 leads. So that might not be enough. But for most you know, business to consumer contacts where you’re selling something that’s not, that’s not incredibly expensive. Usually, $10,000 is a reasonable test budget for a channel.

Mario Fachini [23:05]
Now, I’m gonna dig even deeper, just like we do with the data on that 10 grand do. I know it varies between the clients, but what if they’re 300 bucks a lead and you can get 33 of them? For the 10 grand versus $50? And you can get 200? Do you base off of, hey, we got $2,000 return on that 10 grand that was successful $5,000 return Like what? What’s the quantifier? For the 10 grand to say, okay, let’s keep going with this. Do you base it more on the percentage ratio of the ad spend or the number of leads or both I guess.

Tyler Elliston [23:48]
Yeah. Kind of both. Ultimately, it needs to be rationalized against the expected value of that investment of money, right? So sometimes it’s, you know, a cost per lead, compared to a value per lead. But if that’s the case then it’s gotta kind of be rationalized. Well, the value of the lead, let’s say is $500 versus a $300 cost per lead. But that $500 value per lead has to be rationalized against, well, that’s because we convert 25% of our leads, and, you know,the value of a new customers 2000 so kind of, you know, backing into that cost per lead from the metrics and then you’re kind of monitoring like, okay, leads from Facebook cost us $300 do they convert at 25% like the rest of the business, if so, great. You know, it’s a $500 value or maybe Facebook leads are more valuable or less valuable, in which case, you know, we need to adjust that threshold up or down.

Mario Fachini [24:54]
So I want to ask you about the pricing per lead if you’re if they’re 300 a lead and 425 on Facebook have you ever shut down a platform completely? Let’s say you’re in Google, Facebook and doing YouTube ads, once 300 ones 425 and ones 368? How do you differentiate? Alright, can we double or triple the scale on this one, if we shut these two down completely or do you tweak them and just say, hey, we’ll reduce the ad spend allocated over on the one that’s working? You think it’s still better being present on all three versus doubling or tripling down on the one?

Tyler Elliston [25:35]
Yeah, it kind of depends on the company’s goals, for most of the companies we work with are giving us thresholds where they say, we want to see a cost per lead or cost per sale of x. And if you can hit X, then we will give you as much budget as you know, as you can take and still hit that mark. Right. And so I would say, if that if that mark is conservative, then I would generally advocate if all three of those channels in your example, if they’re all ROI positive, you know, if the value of the lead or sale is higher than the cost, I would advocate leaving them all on and spending more and whatever you can do, obviously if that threshold is is too aggressive or it’s not clearly profitable, you know, then yeah.

Mario Fachini [26:33]
So if one of those was 200. In the example, actually, that’d be better for the cost per lead. But other ways, if it was seven or 800, maybe that’s when you go.

Tyler Elliston [26:43]
Exactly. Exactly.

Mario Fachini [26:46]
Yeah. It’s been an interesting debate, because when they’re close like that, it’s like, you know, you’ll once wish they were seven or eight, because then you could, you know, allocate everything to one. But when it’s, you also have the distribution, hey, there’s eyes on all three, you know, there’s even more than that. But yes, that’s a great answer, and a great way to think about it, you know, because it is best being on all of them, but you don’t want to be losing money just to be on it.

Tyler Elliston [27:14]
Right, exactly. The other thing that we’ve found useful is, you know, we’ll call it like, we’ll call it spike testing, where, you know, we want to know how much more could we spend in this channel without compromising that cost per order cost per sale. And that can really inform how we prioritize one channel versus another. Like, maybe there’s one channel that’s $400 per order, another one is 350. So you say, Oh, the one is 350, is slightly better. But if we do spike testing, and the one that’s 400, we could 5x budget, and it would still be $400. The other one, you know, the minute we try to increase the budget, it goes from 350 to 700. yeah, that that suggests to us like, hey, that’s, that’s really invest in that channel that’s 400. Because there’s so much headroom to grow.

Mario Fachini [28:13]
Well, you clearly know you’re talking about this and I want to ask you with all the companies you’ve helped, who’s your biggest transformation story?

Tyler Elliston [28:23]
It’s a good question. I’ll answer that anonymously to avoid NDA problems. But, you know, there’s one company of, you know, a financial services company, they were trying to figure out performance marketing, you know, paid channels, Facebook, Google, we, we started spending about $10,000 a month, we got that to be profitable for them. So they’re putting in 10,000 getting more in and, you know, it wasn’t like first order, but it was near term value. And they came back and asked us to start spending over a million dollars a month effective immediately and we kind of were like, well, that’s pretty aggressive. You sure you want us to do that? And they said, yep. And we did it, you know, and about a month later, we were spending, you know, I think it was on a run rate of 1.2, $1.3 million. It was you know that customer acquisition cost and increase slightly but still profitable for them. And that was one of those moments where I just thought, man, I cannot believe we just did that. That was incredible. And so that that kind of sticks out as probably our biggest win that was really hard and audacious.

Mario Fachini [29:54]
Yeah, that’s a pretty big jump. Now, did you maintain that? Did they ask you to bump it up again after?

Tyler Elliston [30:00]
So no. So it stayed constant for a while and then we strategically reduced it not because of the acquisition costs or the performance but for other business reasons. So in that particular case, it did not take another step function up. Which, yeah.

Mario Fachini [30:19]
I mean, you think if they want to grow, they wouldn’t slouch at a million a month in ads.

Tyler Elliston [30:25]
You know, yeah, it’s lots of lots of different factors in that case.

Mario Fachini [30:33]
Well, that’s inspiring. I mean, I know, there’s companies out there that do it and more but I know that’s not the norm.

Tyler Elliston [30:40]
Correct. Yeah. it’s much more common. We see companies, you know, they’re either launching ads for the first time and trying to figure out how to spend 25k a month profitably, you know, or they’re spending 25k a month profitably and they’re like, every time we try to spend 50, we can’t get it there. Can you help us get it there? You know,

Mario Fachini [30:57]
So what contributes to that when you have it successful at one point but then you go to increase the ad spend and again scale up the profits and leads and everything? What triggers it to not be as successful? I mean, if you’re, if all things considered copy, creative audience you’re targeting and everything, and you dialed it in and spent months doing it?

Tyler Elliston [31:19]
I would say the audience is probably the biggest. So a lot of times, you know, you’ll target a specific audience that will have a certain ceiling and you can kind of, you know, as long as you’re hitting that audience, the economics are good. Economics being, you know, the cost per order but at some point, you just can’t hit that audience anymore. Because they’re already seeing the ads. And so then in order to grow, you’ve got to find another audience. And, you know, when you’re going from 25k a month to 100k a month, the audience has to be, you know, quite a bit larger. And so…

Mario Fachini [31:54]
Four times yeah.

Tyler Elliston [31:55]
Exactly. And so you just kind of you need to find additional audiences and the new audiences you need to find get bigger and bigger. And you know, and you kind of lose some of the creative learnings, like, maybe the creative really worked for that first audience, but the creative, you know, is really different for the next audience. So just it kind of every audience that you sort of saturate, you have to graduate out of it to more audiences and really kind of redo all of that experimentation around creative and funnel. And, you know, really, every factor of the advertising.

Mario Fachini [32:34]
Yeah, because every audience has a finite size that might be smaller or bigger but at some point, you’re going to be set, you know, penetrating most of them. And the only other option really is to increase the frequency. But like you said, you don’t want to burn them out.

Tyler Elliston [32:47]
Yes, exactly.

Mario Fachini [32:49]
What’s the longest do you think you should be pushing an audience before you give them a break? And then maybe retool it and come back or try the same thing?

Tyler Elliston [32:56]
Yeah. So ideally, that question could be answered in the context of a platform that gives you like a click through rate, for example, you know, how many people are seeing the ad and clicking on it? So in Facebook, for example, you know, you can see over time, your click through rate decline as an audience gets saturated. And so o a lot of times, it’s not necessarily the duration in days or weeks. It’s the, it’s the impression frequency. And you’ll see that Oh, now people have seen it four times on average, five times on average, six times on average and you’ll see the click through rate go down. And that’s a sign that, okay, we need to refresh our creative, put something else in front of them. And ultimately, you know, look at other audiences because at some point, those creative refreshes become less effective.

Mario Fachini [33:49]
Excellent. Well, I appreciate everything you’re sharing. It’s been very informative. I have one more question for this part with you. And it is the Wheel of Whatever. And we’re gonna see what question you actually get.

Tyler Elliston [34:10]
Okay.

Mario Fachini [34:10]
Already know what that’s because clearly there’s none on here but theatrics and oh, look at that. It’s either yellow or black. What do you like to do when you’re not helping? What do you do outside of business that you enjoy to do when you’re not helping companies?

Tyler Elliston [34:28]
Yeah, that’s a good question. So I love long distance running, though I’m recovering from injuries. And I’m perhaps hopelessly trying to get good at electric guitar. So yeah, when I have time, I’m doing like, you know, nightly lessons online and electric guitar.

Mario Fachini [34:49]
Excellent, very fun. All right. We’re gonna thank the sponsor and come back for the Imperfect Action Round.

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Mario Fachini [36:26]
And we are back with the Imperfect Action Round. Tyler, are you ready to take Imperfect Action?

Tyler Elliston [36:32]
I’m ready.

Mario Fachini [36:33]
Got three questions for you. 60 seconds or less answers. The first one is what is the fastest path to the profits?

Tyler Elliston [36:42]
Well, you know, I talked about it a little bit earlier. But I think solving a real problem is sort of the first prerequisite to that. So I would stick with that.

Mario Fachini [36:53]
Very good. Number two, what is the biggest problem you see your prospects making and the fastest way for them to fix it?

Tyler Elliston [37:02]
Well, I don’t want to be a broken record here. But I kind of feel like referencing my former self of, you know, looking at a product problem and thinking it’s a marketing problem. So yeah, that is one of the biggest problems we see. I feel like that’s a little bit of a cop out because I just answered that. So maybe a second answer to that biggest problem we see is not accurately calculating the cost per action and the value of that action so sort of an analytics problem.

Mario Fachini [37:37]
Number three, what is the best way to maximize customer lifetime value?

Tyler Elliston [37:43]
Yeah, so they’re beyond having a great product. I will say that one again, I think I would say engagement, staying top of Mind whether that’s through personal connection, email, SMS, once you’re sort of in somebody’s mind is providing a great solution, product service, whatever it may be, just reminding them that you’re there.

Mario Fachini [38:06]
Very good. What books would you recommend the Expert Authority World?

Tyler Elliston [38:11]
That’s a good question. One that I particularly benefited from is called Blue Ocean Strategy, very good in terms of looking at different markets and trying to find innovative ways to evolve them. So that one was very impactful as I was thinking through, right set up, and I would recommend it to anybody.

Mario Fachini [38:38]
Well, growing it from zero to 10 million plus in four years. I think that’s a good recommendation.

Tyler Elliston [38:47]
Awesome. I’m glad to hear it.

Mario Fachini [38:49]
Where would you like people to learn more?

Tyler Elliston [38:53]
RightSideUp.com is a great spot. Obviously, people can find me on LinkedIn, and we can connect there as well.

Mario Fachini [38:59]
Very good. Well, it’s been an absolute pleasure. I’m so glad I could have you on. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. It’s been a blast.

Tyler Elliston [39:08]
My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Mario Fachini [39:09]
All right, Expert Authority World. We have another great episode here today. I’ll see you tomorrow. Have a great day. And God bless.

Sponsor – Free Business Book Publishing Course [39:17]
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www.EAInterviews.com [39:51]
Hey, thanks for listening to today’s episode. I hope you got a lot out of it. I know I shared that. If you haven’t done so already. I invite you to subscribe to the show. And also be sure to check out EAInterviews.com. For complete show notes, the full interview video experience, links to the resources we mentioned in more. Have a blessed day and I’ll see you tomorrow.