The Real Audience Accelerator™ To Get Free Traffic From Social Media And Build An Audience That Buys with Best Selling Author, Speaker, & CEO Paul Colligan on Episode #0215

Paul Colligan [0:00]
This is Paul Colligan for the Podcast Partnership and you are listening to EA Interviews.

Mario Fachini [0:04]
EA interviews, Episode 215 inspiration, transformation success stories and The Imperfect Action round seven days a week. Join Mario Fachini for today’s Expert Authority Effect interview. Have you ever thought about starting a podcast? I know I have. And that is why I am super excited for today’s episode; I have none other than the Paul Colligan. I have been learning from him, for years, I consider him a mentor in a good friend. And he’s taught me a ton. And when I knew he was coming on, I knew it was going to be a blessing to you Expert Authority World. He literally wrote the Podcasting Bible over a decade ago when podcasting was in its infancy. And he’s going to be sharing with you what he’s up to now, how you can help it, how you can use it to grow your show. And I know you’re gonna get a lot out of this. So, I’m going to bring up Paul Colligan right after we thank our sponsor.

Sponsor – Free Business Book Publishing Course [1:07]
Every business needs a book, including yours, visit FreeBusinessBookPublishingCourse.com today to learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. Once again, that’s FreeBusinessBookPublishingCourse.com.

Mario Fachini [1:22]
Here he is ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Paul, Colligan, Paul, how are you feeling today?

Paul Colligan [1:26]
Hey, I’m an Acorn user myself. So, feeling pretty good.

Mario Fachini [1:30]
Excellent.

Paul Colligan [1:30]
It’s fun to see them as a sponsor. Good job.

Mario Fachini [1:32]
Thank you. It is an honor and privilege to have you here. I know you kind of led the charge on Podcasting, even when it wasn’t really a thing, so to speak. But how have you seen the change over the years?

Paul Colligan [1:46]
Well, it’s finally legit. I mean, that’s a big issue. And you know, you mentioned the Business Podcasting Bible that actually came out two years before the iPhone did, which is kind of funny, if you think about it. And it’s funny to this day, I still get e-mails people saying, I read the book, I love your vision, you know, how can you get mentioned the iPhone? And of course, you should submit like, Well, you know, look at the front cover, look at the iPod Classic on the front cover of the book, you know, you can tell a couple of things. But yeah, it’s gotten to where I knew it would be. It took longer than I thought it would. But it’s it really very little has surprised when you can provide your content anytime, anyplace, anywhere, at a fraction of what it costs to send it out any other way, how’s it not gonna work? You know, and, you know, it was neat to see Apple embrace it, you know, way back when and then it was neat to see Apple do the App and see Spotify spend their money. And recently, you know, at the time of this recording, Amazon music just added podcast. So, it’s neat to see everybody embrace it. And that’s exciting. But I mean, this is just the logical progression of what happens when there’s nothing between us and our audience.

Mario Fachini [3:01]
So, let’s foreshadow into the future, because you always have your finger on the pulse on everything. And it’s astonishing to me, because there’s been many times, I’ve seen you talk about stuff before it was a thing, and then it becomes a thing, and then everyone else is doing, you know, run their mouths about it. So, obviously, you’ve seen it grow over the last decade, where do you see it going over the next five or 10 years with? You know, I don’t even want to lead that question. Where do you see it going over the next five or 10 years?

Paul Colligan [3:31]
Video is gonna be a part of it right now, you know, like I said, Yeah, you’re happy about that, I can see that it is going to be part of it. Because again, it’s not the issue of audio versus video or whatnot. It’s the easiest connect between us and our audience. And right now, our devices are set up for this concept of catching audio, but the media devices are going to do that as well. Now there’s some strategy, when you do audio, there’s a lot more chances to catch the customer than there is when they have to be in front of a screen. But we’re gonna see, receive audio, receive video become part of this, we’re gonna see VR become part of this. We’re going to see some version of Podcasts and even have PDFs and eBooks and that type of thing. Just this, leveraging the distribution channel of the Internet to get our media directly to our client, but nobody in the middle is going to take on all forms of media.

Mario Fachini [4:27]
So, what I love about everything you share, you kind of take a contrarian approach. And one thing that I remember seeing was, it’s not a Podcast, it’s a platform, you have all kinds of great quotes that I don’t see anyone else sharing. And they kind of go against pretty much everything that for lack of better term, the gurus are sharing. Why do you consider a platform and not just a Podcast?

Paul Colligan [4:53]
Well, you got to think the end game. Okay. The end game was always the easiest way to distribute media to my audience with nobody in the middle, that was always the end game. But I’ll tell you a fun little story. My dear mother, you know, to this day, if you asked her what her son does, she’ll tell you it’s something with Apple, I don’t know, you know, and you’ll ask her if she ever listened to it or watched it, she’ll say, Oh, no, the Apple’s too complicated. And you’ll say, you know what, your cheap son buys you an Apple. And surely, no, it’s too complicated. But yet, about a year and a half ago, I was visiting her, and she had her Kindle Fire open. And somehow, she had installed the iHeartRadio App. And no one knew how to install apps. So, that was kind of surprised and asked her, why do you have the iHeartRadio App? And she says, well, the radio told me to, now there’s a whole scary issue of that to deal with. But you know, I said, Mom, you know, I’m on there. And she looks at me, it was only Mom could do. And she says, no, son, this is just radio. You know, like no, mama, I’m there. And she goes, are you on the radio now? You know, there’s this thing, like, she just needs to know where I’m at. She just needs to know that she can click a button and listen to me, brought a recent client in, we’re going through the process of kind of building out what we’re doing for him. And it was funny, because his demographic is entirely 60 plus all of his demographic of 60 plus. So his question was, would they use the Podcast? And which is, you know, when they use the Podcasting App, but they do it on the iPhone, that type of thing, a very legitimate question. But it was funny, because at the end of it, he said, Well, worst case scenario, you know, if it doesn’t work; it doesn’t work. I said, No. Worst case scenario, we have several CDs of audio content that you can give to your clients. Yeah, and that eyebrow thing that you just did is the exact eyebrow thing, but the client. And so, when you start restricting it to this Podcast, it starts to get interesting. And it’s funny, because, you know, I always have to be careful about these things bone to pick, but…

Mario Fachini [7:06]
You can say whatever you want.

Paul Colligan [7:08]
Yeah, thanks, man. You know, people laughed at me and whatnot. You know, one of the things we would always say is, also Podcast is platform and channel. You know, and, and sometimes it’s okay to podcast things that weren’t a podcast originally, I was like, No, that’s terrible. You got on the Podcast. And it’s funny, because a couple months ago, Oprah Winfrey put her entire back catalogue available as a Podcast. Oprah Winfrey took her TV show, and made it available as an Audio Podcast, you know, and that’s where this world is. And so, you know, it’s a platform, half the world, pretty much exactly. Now half the world knows what a Podcast is. Half the world doesn’t; has ever used it ever interacted it? Probably Yeah, I’ve heard that term kind of thing. But if you look at the numbers, half the world’s interact with the Podcast and some we have the world has, here’s the thing, even the world’s interactive audio. So, if you make it about the Podcast, you cut off half the world. You make it about audio, Matt Nugget, everybody. What if I tell you I’ve got a podcast with Mario, then what’s a podcast?

Paul Colligan [8:16]
But if I say you can get Mario anytime, anyplace, anywhere. And so, it’s always been about the platform always has been, this just a distribution mechanism. You know, Seinfeld, you know, in the 90s, created a show Seinfeld, you know, he recently rented his show, to Hulu, who doesn’t even get an exclusive right to it, for four years, like a half a Billion dollars. It’s crazy. You know, and so, you know, he created an asset, not a TV show. And that’s what we should be doing.

Mario Fachini [8:52]
I loved hearing you say that, not in that much detail, but it always had me thinking, you know, what can you do? And one of the things since I do video and audio, I just kind of depending on what I’m doing, stop calling it a Podcast, if someone asked, yeah, it’s a Podcast, but I have the audio experience in the video experience. And I just started saying, enjoy the show.

Paul Colligan [9:15]
Exactly. I had a client who came in, it was really funny. We were just assessing where he was at, what he was doing, and CrossFit space. And about 10% of his audience was watching the Podcast on YouTube. Even though the YouTube episode was just the graphic with that squiggly line, you know, it was incredibly well done. Really fancy now, but it was you know, but here’s the thing, what’s interesting about an hour plus show, and people were consuming, you know, 1000 plus episodes, not a weird number.

Mario Fachini [9:55]
Just from an audiogram.

Paul Colligan [9:56]
From an hour long plus audiogram, but we’re consuming from an hour long plus audio gram, more than they were consuming video of an hour long plus, in the Cross Fit space, the guy’s content, was that compelling, that people were doing it and you know, we could sit around and we could say, that’s not optimum, or that’s not ideal, or that’s not this, that’s not that, or we could just go, you know, what, 1000 people are downloading it on YouTube, you know, which is awesome. And that’s the approach that we need to, to take to all of this.

Mario Fachini [10:31]
So, let me ask you this, then, because I can relate to that, because I am almost, always doing something video related, or I’m completely away from the machines on the leg doing something like there’s no machinery around. But when I am, I definitely have YouTube with stuff playing. So, do you think that YouTube is just so convenient for people, whether it’s audio, video, whatever, where they just, maybe I don’t need to watch it. Because, you know, you can be doing other things, but it’s just a convenience factor where you click boom, and it’s there.

Paul Colligan [11:04]
Yeah. And it’s YouTube. It’s ubiquitous, it’s everywhere. My mom knows what YouTube is, you know, what a Podcast is to this day. So, maybe she gets it by YouTube. And the thing is that the power of this, is we can be on YouTube. We know; we can be in the Podcast directories, you can be on the Website, you know, when you and I met back in the day, and we’re back to the old.

Mario Fachini [11:31]
Like a decade ago.

Paul Colligan [11:33]
Yeah, you know, back when not? Oh, I can’t remember the thing, that distributed the videos. Oh, my goodness, I’m going blank. I’m starstruck being on the show here. That’s the thing that distributed the videos.

Mario Fachini [11:45]
Traffic Geyser.

Paul Colligan [11:46]
Thank you, Traffic Geyser you know, Traffic Geyser, would distribute. So, you know, for you kids out there. Traffic Geyser was the system that would give it a video, and it would publish the video everywhere that would take it. And one of the things that was funny was I used it everywhere I could. And the decision-making tree for which platform I published on was this a platform that Traffic Geyser republished it, that was the platform. And what was hilarious, was there one of the platforms, I don’t know if you’ve heard this Mario, one of them was called stupidvideos.com, you know, it was a place where people would publish stupid videos, hence the name, good title. Well, I publish my show on stupidvideos.com. Because why not? You know, and the funny thing was, I have a dozen viewers on stupidvideos.com. And who might have seen that’s the one place for them to consume it.

Mario Fachini [12:41]
So, you never know where someone’s going to be watching it. When I first did this, I was hesitant to go on to Twitch because, you know, it’s traditionally for gaming and stuff. But I was like, hey, it’s another platform. And you know, it’s totally legit and everything and there’s some good stuff on there. But at the same point, it’s like it’s a business show and entrepreneurship, this, and that. But you know, what, if people can watch it, people can watch it.

Paul Colligan [13:08]
Exactly. Do you know the name, iJustine? Okay, for you kids, iJustine, she’s a media figure. She was one of the original live streamers. She screamed her life and that kind of stuff. She’s now more of a media player. And 15 years ago, or in the early days of this, I published an article, and it was really interesting article, because I had access to some tools that can show the penetration of the stars, the video stars across the different platforms. And it was funny, because you could look at like this star was, you know, all YouTube, you know, and this star was all Vimeo or that kind of thing. It was amazing was Justine. If you looked at her, she was almost exactly 20% around the top five and a half. That was brilliant, and you only get that by absolutely purely, completely calculated. You know, and I mentioned that on the blog post, I said, we need to be more like iJustine. And because we do and at that time, we didn’t know what YouTube was going to be, I think that might have even been pre purchased by Google. So, you know, it was not clear that YouTube was going to be the big star. But it was, I did that article. And like five minutes later, there was a comment on the blog post from Justine saying thanks for noticing, because she was on top of it. And 15 years later, you know, she’s still playing the game and a lot of the other popular podcast, you know, the popular video types at the point at works. And I was watching them as much as the season of cut our chopped that TV show where they and they had these stars of the web and all of a sudden Justine walks out it was so good to see. You know, and so that’s the game. You know, it’s not about any platform. It’s about our content, and so we’d become the platform. You only hear a crusade and working on?

Mario Fachini [15:03]
Absolutely.

Paul Colligan [15:04]
Okay. So, you remember the old days, I used to get the audience in a tizzy, right? I would do this whole thing I’d pull up; you know, I make all my points. And then I’d you know, be all profound and pundit like and I would say something along the lines of, sort of you think about it, who’s the media? You know, and then the big point to where you are, and then I go, no, you’re the medium, then we do this whole thing back and forth, where Person A would look at Person B, who is the media, and then they say, do the media, no, you’re the media, you know, and it’ll be fine. And everybody be happy about that kind of stuff. And that inspired a lot of people. I’m sure you remember that a couple times. Here’s my idea. Like the auto camera, look at that. It’s trying to figure out where I’m going. And we’re talking about the auto camera in a minute if you would, but yes, friends, I am actually testing something on Mario here. I wouldn’t normally do this. But it’s Mario, I feel comfortable. And it’s a good test. So, it used to be who’s the media?

Mario Fachini [16:02]
I think it’s changed.

Paul Colligan [16:04]
I think it’s who’s the network. I think HBO is our model. Okay. I think Game of Thrones is the show. And there’s a lot of people who have Game of Thrones, Blu-ray, who bought Game of Thrones on iTunes. You know, I think there’s even been times where HBO has given away a Game of Thrones a free episode here or there. You know, you can download it from your Xfinity box or that kind of thing. But it leads them all back to HBO. Everything leads them back to HBO because that’s where HBO makes the big money, now they’ve licensed Game of Thrones. So, that people yeah, that kind of stuff. But at the end,

Mario Fachini [16:45]
It’s still their content.

Paul Colligan [16:48]
Right, but it basically has gone now they’re doing the next thing. And they’re able to survive the next thing because here’s the people brought us Game of Thrones, or who brought us you know, whatever show we know, from their long history you want to think of, but the idea is now be the network. So, HBO doesn’t care. You know, I’m on this. I’m on this Facebook portal device right now, with the tracking, I’m giving this the big test. And they announced Actually, this morning, that they’re going to put Netflix on the Facebook port on bill to click a button watch Netflix. Well, you know, that means in a couple of days, you know, somebody in HBO is gonna fly down and give the Facebook guy some money and say, put HBO on there as well. You know, and so HBO is gonna be there. And so, we want to be HBO, we don’t want to be the Expert Authority Effect. We want to be, you know, Mario net, you know, where or where do you know, whatever the bigger idea is, and I think that’s the next step. So, we’re on YouTube, just like HBO is on YouTube. We’re on podcast just like HBO is on podcast. People might order our stuff and download it, just like people order and download other stuff. You know, there will be books about it. There will be different things music soundtrack, the whole nine yards. That’s what we’re doing.

Mario Fachini [18:03]
So, you’re in a nutshell, you’re saying don’t limit it to just YouTube or any one channel or Youtuber, a Podcaster.

Paul Colligan [18:11]
Don’t miss anything. One minute is like making a TV show that only works on Sony televisions. Right.

Mario Fachini [18:22]
And now it’s not even the device dependent. Like you’re saying you can have it on Facebook portal, your phone, the TV monitors, multiple monitors, laptops. I actually changed my company name in 2012. Because I was saying when we’re doing marketing with holograms, I don’t want to be tied down to any you know, my original company name was IMICPA Entertainment and then web design and I’m like, this is nuts. So, I was like, it’s gonna change in the next 10 years and I knew I’d still be doing it.

Paul Colligan [18:53]
Colligan.com, we do a lot of things with that idea.

Mario Fachini [19:01]
So, do you see over the next 510 years, bigger businesses coming into the space and pushing indies out, or do you see indies getting so big? They’re working with the larger companies.

Paul Colligan [19:16]
See this? I’m glad you asked, this question is a big pet peeve of mine because the math’s wrong. Okay. This is the beautiful thing about what we have here, is the good indies are never going to get pushed out. It doesn’t matter how many Olive Gardens are built in Portland. You know, the good Italian restaurants are still gonna be around. You know, and you know, Mama Leone is, and I’m just making that up because that’s a cool sounding Italian restaurant name. You know, Mama Leone has nothing to fear from Olive Garden. You know, now, Mama Leone needs to never think about being on the Superbowl ad, you know, Mama Leone, you know, shouldn’t have dreams of going public. But that’s not my mom, the only is there. You know, and so, and I’ll check to the kids, Mario’s little inside baseball here. There’s this idea that was, you know, we made Podcasting, Great. And so now the big people are gonna come in, and they’re gonna, you know, they’re gonna fight for competition, they’re gonna fight for eyeballs, they’re gonna fight for ear balls, or, you know, whatever. You know, there will be some of that, but the good stuff will always go down. You know, I love a good burger. You know, but I’ve never gotten up in the morning and said, Let’s go to McDonald’s. You know, and now have I ended up at McDonald’s. Yes, you know, not the last four or five years. But you know, that’s just where we’re at. So, there’s the roof of the big guys, and the roof of a little guys. But what’s cool is, whereas Mama Leone is, in some point, what a great name for a restaurant, I should hire somebody to open it up. Mama Leone, where she is in this obscure alleyway somewhere in downtown Portland probably too close to the riots, you know, and you got to really be specific to go eat her rigatoni. You know, with the Podcast, we’re in the same directory as everybody else’s. Any attempt at a podcast directory that pushes out the little guys is never going to win. by the very nature of what it is. And so that’s how it’s so fantastic. So, if the indie has the right attitude of what it means to be Indian, what makes India so freakin cool, we’re going to be fine. Now, I think there is one argument that has been made by, I think the biggest proponent of this is Merlin man on five by five and do by Friday. And so, the other shows, Merlin says that, some of the big names Spotify specifically, is kind of like Walmart, you know, they’ll come into the space. And, you know, they’ll make it all shiny and fancy. And then if they decide it’s not good, they’ll leave and leave podcasting, this ghost town, it’s just not gonna go. It’s not gonna become a ghost town. It’s too big, and it’s too massive right now. So, I’m not worried about that in the slightest. You know, and never got that in the slightest. You know, I am a couple days ago, I ordered some coffee, you know, and I knew I could click a button. And I could have some good coffee coming to me from Whole Foods via Amazon. I’m a big Amazon user, I mean, there are very few days go by where I don’t have, you know, the Amazon box on my front step or the ding on the phone that Amazon has arrived. I’m not an anti-corporate guy. But whenever the coffee you know, ordered it from someplace else, and I knew it was gonna take seven days to get here. And it was worth, our coffee knows and yes, but will I always order coffee from the Indies? Yes. So, we’re gonna be okay.

Mario Fachini [22:59]
With how it’s growing and knowing we can all be in the same directories. What would you say are some of the best ways to promote it? Because if there’s a million people in the directory, it’s a level playing field. But obviously, some shows are going to get more airtime, watch time, eyeball time, whatever you want to call it. What have you found the best ways to promote it?

Paul Colligan [23:19]
Well, the thing, is we got to stop pretending like the directories are worth anything is the first step. Nobody, Mario, nobody ever, in the history of mankind went to Mama Leone, because they went to the phonebook. Search for Italian restaurants and found that tiny little listing that says Mama Leone one block away from the riots. Ooh, that sounds tasty. Nobody ever did that million years. People went to Mama Leone, because some walk by Mama Leone and they smelled the garlic bread. Oh man, this is me. You know, some people posted to a friend on Facebook man, I want a Thai food, you know, there’s a little Indie Band that I really adore, called Over the Rhine. And it was funny because, I basically had to drag my wife to the first one, because it was just an Indie Band and the club that we went to, we had to stand, and we’re just annoyed getting to all this kind of thing. And nobody’s going to listen to your Podcast, because you’re listening to an Apple. So, how are they getting their word of mouth? value? You know, I’m trying to figure out how to use, you know, I’m trying to figure out how to use authority in my marketing, and I’m trying to figure out how to use the fact that we’re so far, you know, I couldn’t fly down to where you were, and give me an hour, but I can do this. So, somebody’s trying to figure out how to make sense of this. They search your show on the episodes you got live right now.

Mario Fachini [25:35]
150 some?

Paul Colligan [25:36]
Exactly. So, anybody who looks at this, you know, goes, Okay, he’s not playing around. This is not somebody who’s done free, you know, and so, they search for this stuff, they find this stuff, and they realize that you’re here to play. You know, and that’s the game. So, we have to stop marketing thinking, that people are going to direct because nobody is, you know, we got to start marketing thinking, because you make a good product. People know about it, and people go from there. Now on occasion, you know, someone will, you know, try to take this Mama Leone; idea a little bit, probably too far to be staying at a hotel nearby. And you know, they ask the concierge where’s the closest Italian restaurant within walking distance? Because we’re not gonna get firebomb for the riots. The goal, Mama Leone, is around the corner never been there, he might wanna give it a try. You know, they go to Mama, though his Mama notice might get a drive by now. And then bad business plan. That’s a really bad business plan.

Mario Fachini [26:35]
I love that you’re using it. And there was a couple of points where I was like, man, I should check it out. I’m like, wait, he just made this up eight minutes ago.

Paul Colligan [26:44]
Doesn’t really exist, guys. Although it sounds like a really cool restaurant.

Mario Fachini [26:47]
I’m also thinking which one of us is going to get the domain first.

Paul Colligan [26:51]
Right.

Mario Fachini [26:53]
So, with what you’re saying about the directories being useless, basically, I got a great segue question. As far as Apps go, I don’t want to name any specific ones. But there’s one I’m thinking of, specifically, as far as iTunes, and everyone knows iTunes, I’m thinking of a different one. But as far as the directory, you know, I think of iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, iHeart and all those, what about these new players that are like, put us on your exclusive app. And they’re trying to get you off iTunes onto their platform, but you can only listen to the show on that app, or that station or that website or that whatever you want to call it.

Paul Colligan [27:41]
So, there is a trend in the industry right now, for platforms wanting exclusive content. We’re trying to make this as evergreen as possible. But right now, the one currently in the news is Joe Rogan on Spotify. And you know, if you want Joe Rogan now, at least at the time this recording, actually predictions of what will happen soon. But at the time of this recording, if you want Joe Rogan, you got to go to Spotify. Now it’s funny because there was like, Oh, this is crazy. This has never happened before. This is nuts. It’s funny, because, you know, 15 years ago, there’s a guy named Howard Stern, who left radio to go to Sirius, you know, and now you tell them a little pithy saying and that kind of stuff. Here’s a pithy saying very Mario’, Don’t count on the silly money, but if it comes cash the check, okay. Joe got offered insane money for doing something insane. And Joe said, Yes. Period. Now, here’s the other thing. There are people more famous than Joe playing this game. There’s this woman named Michelle. She had this husband Brock, and they lived in a white house and she was exclusive on Spotify. That took her off. She’s now everywhere. There is you know, we talked about HBO, there’s this company called Gimlet and Gimlet kind of presented themselves as the HBO podcast and I thought it was not a bad idea. Spotify bought Gimlet. And when it initially announced they’d had some shows that were out and so they were everywhere, but they slowly announced that certain shows would be Spotify only. And the marketing for Gimlet started to get kind of vague as to where you could get the show even though you could get it everywhere. They make it sound like it’s only on Spotify. That’s changing. So, here’s the thing, content available everywhere, versus content available somewhere. That’s the choice.

Paul Colligan [29:48]
Everywhere is always better. Unless there’s a financial reason to be somewhere and someone gives you, some crazy money takes it, I’m doing but the power of Podcasting. We say that the value of Podcasting is, ads, like, you know, doing an ad for somebody else. Who cares? That’s old media, like, there’s nothing exciting about that. It’s the ad for yourself. It’s the ad for what you’re doing. That gives you the opportunity to actually do something really, really cool. And an ad for your own stuff everywhere is better than an ad for yourself, somewhere. You know, had a client was really funny had a client. It was a beautiful call; he gave me permission to tell the story. I have to be a bit vague, but client calls and says so hey, Paul, these commercials. How does that work? And I said, Well, here’s the deal. Commercials in podcasts are traditionally sold on what’s called CPM, cost per mil. It’s an old advertising term. And what it means basically for 1000, and in the ad industry, it’s impressions. So, the idea is the Oregonian, the local paper of Portland. You know, how many people will see that ad is, you know, how many 1000s of people see that ad, so 20,000 people see it, and it’s $50 per CPM, it would cost you 20 times 50. To get your ad in the Oregonian, that’s how it’s figured out. In podcasting CPM is per the downloads you know, as certified by, you know, the IAB, which means North American downloads only and that kind of thing. It’s basically long story short, best case, you’re gonna get about 40 bucks. Best case, about 40 per 1000, by the way, your agents going to get about 25%, that’s best, you’re going to get 30. They want at least 10,000 downloads before they really take that seriously. So, the fact the matter is, you’re gonna make 300 bucks from 10,000 downloads. And if you can’t make more than 300 bucks from 10,000 downloads, you’re doing this wrong. And it goes. Now I heard enough. What do you do? Well, didn’t you tell me I’m only getting about 500 downloads per episode. And it was, so I’m far away from this RNA. And that was gonna be my closing. But then he says, what we’re doing pretty good. To find pretty good. You know, because, well, we’re getting two or three leads a day. Alright, define leads, like, is this five days a week? Is it 702 or three leads a day, seven days a week? Great. What’s your conversion? says, oh, at least one. I go well. Makes the math easy. So, you get 365 new customers a year from your shop? Yeah. Oh, my God, what’s the customer worth? So, first year, the customers were $3,000. So, you’re telling me 10 months into this? You are a Million-dollar Podcast. And you’re calling me about mattress ads? And you’re not proposing other sizes? That’s kind of silly. All right. Well, thanks for the call, you know, basically hangs up and goes through it. That’s the power of podcasting. Now could you Rogan, and that can be a trillion, you can just sloppily throw up an ad or that kind of thing. But that’s an entirely different game, that’s not the power podcast, that’s the power of being a media sensation. So, I’m just not worried about him. And I think anybody who’s strategically, you know, and that is fine and dandy. And, you know, basically, if you could make a million bucks, by being everywhere from ads, and someone offers you 1.5 million bucks could be somewhere without; enjoy. But do the math.

Mario Fachini [33:24]
How many people do you think take a look at the math before they just start doing stuff?

Paul Colligan [33:29]
Very few. It’s got to say, Well, this is the problem. One of the issues is Podcasting is so easy. So, there’s this company called Anchor, also owned by Spotify. There’s this company called Anchor whose promise is, we’re gonna do for podcasting what YouTube did for online video. And we’re gonna make it free, we’re gonna make it a nonexclusive, we’re gonna make the software really easy. And so, now anybody can download an app and they can have a podcast opt in, very little time at all. And the great thing because the podcasts don’t have to worry about lighting, you don’t have to worry about cameras, you have to worry about any of that stuff. It’s not that big of a deal. So, because we can get in cheap and fast and easy. We’re good to go. You know, and if you look at the numbers, Spotify is just our; Anchor has been like, a massive number of new podcasts. But the majority of them you know, Hello, I’m Podcasting. My first episode, hello, does this work? You know, and that’s the episode and nobody cares. You know, and so, very few people do the math and what’s sad is Mario. A lot of people don’t do the math deeper on, you know, I was speaking to a guy, 7 million downloads, 7 million downloads, clarity on his mission and purpose his grandma had, you know, Grandma Leone, even you know, the restaurant down in Portland. If Grandma Leone only had, you know, hand stitch the mission statement into a pillow to discuss I slept on every night. You know, I mean, absolutely what he was doing, I asked him, how’s it working for you? A decent question to ask especially is gonna hire me as a consultant. You know, and so a lot of people don’t know, it is so easy. It is so fast. So, click a button and you’re everywhere. that a lot of people don’t look at the numbers. That’s where we make our money is by looking at the numbers. And it’s fun numbers there to look at.

Mario Fachini [35:29]
Yeah, after I got my show up and running, I’ve always been doing that with live streaming video and other people reached out for, you know, hire me for consulting on the video side of things, and well, the whole thing, but mainly because they’re like, I want to do the video like you do. And I was like, Alright, let’s look at that. I’ve always taken any of my clients, whether they’re Author, video, whatever, marketing, and I’m like, what are your profit margins? What are this? Because it’s business? If you don’t know what your margins are, how are you going to be profitable with it? And it? It’s astonishing to me when people are like, well, what plan do I need? if they’re talking about a paid plan? They’re like, should I get this one to this one? I’m like, it’s $5 or $10 a month? Is this really a question? Well, I mean, you start talking video, it’s like, that stuff wasn’t free?

Paul Colligan [36:21]
Well, no. Yeah. What’s funny is you know about the whole studio now, what should I do with it? Maybe determine what you were doing before you buy the whole studio. You got a great blue screen or green screen set up there? You know.

Mario Fachini [36:34]
I knew what I was doing before I started.

Paul Colligan [36:36]
Well, right. But it makes sense for what you’re doing. you know that folksy down home, calling for the home office kind of portrayal that I’m trying to do right now. You know, if I was blue screen, it wouldn’t. Are you blue? or green? What not? It’s green, obviously, with your background, your green screen? You know, it’s just, what are we trying to do? What are we trying to accomplish? And what’s the best, you know, item for the task?

Paul Colligan [37:06]
As I spoke to earlier, barrier to entry is so tiny, like you said, it’s the $5 plan or the $10 plan, you know, and the barrier to entry is so tiny. So, what they do, you know, this is the bane of my existence sensors and web design since I was in affiliate, you know, set settings and all this stuff, people don’t know what they want is the first problem. So, they have their assistant find, five people and then they usually hire the one that’s not they don’t have the cheapest one because they’re not cheap. But the higher the one, that’s the second cheapest, you know, because they’re, you know, wise with their money kind of thing. never compare nutsy know, I remember back in the early day’s web design, there was a project we bid on, and it was absolutely hilarious, because we lost, that’s fine. And I called the company, and they say, Hey, we lost I get it., I just wonder why we lost for the future. Could you give me five minutes of your time they said sure? And we were trying different things. I guess that’s what the end, it was that they were less per hour than you were, which is a very legitimate issue, there the gym issue. And then I said great. Would you mind sharing me with their cap was? You know just what do you mean? So, remember that part where we said where we wouldn’t charge more than $10,000? Regardless of how long it took. What are the other guys say, I don’t think they said anything, So, they can charge you as much as they want. So, the end, theoretically, this could be 10 times as expensive. I was literally trying to, just get the data on why we lost the bid. And the crap, you’re right. You know, oh, well, we’re too late. And we go from there. So, because it’s so easy to get in. A lot of people don’t think things through, you know, if you’re, if you’re going to build a house, you’re going to spend years figuring out the exact house you want. If you’re going to buy one of the houses available on Flint Avenue, you’re going to see which the houses are made available in Flint Avenue and make it work. So, because all the cool kids are doing it, they went in, because the barrier to entry is really low just by microphone, start talking and by the five or $10 account, they’re really in nobody takes the time to do it. Right. And that’s just you know, you know, story of life. You know, people have kids without a strategy, what we do with these kids, which bring them home you know, a lot of people you know, there’s martyrs that live near this mall. And it was new, and it opens up and yay and no Mama Leonese, but across the way from the movie theater at the time, though, the newest coolest movie theater in town was a, I kid you not, a Gourmet rice pudding store. Gourmet rice pudding. I’m sure it was great. But never in my life, if I ever walked out of an action slip thinking, rice pudding time. Never before my wife and I gone to see a rom com, Hon let’s finish up this night with a bowl of rice pudding. You know.

Mario Fachini [42:06]
Even if there’s a little cinnamon on it.

Paul Colligan [42:08]
Yeah, for sure. I don’t know, I guess you know, and they were out there with a little cup with the little spoons and rice pudding. Never in a million years. Was I ever considering rice pudding as my post cinematographic tree, you know, and the problem was probably not the best rice pudding in the world, but the positioning was terrible. You know, and surprise, not they were the first store to go out of business in that mall. You know, and I’m sure they’re like, who would have thought, you know, well, anybody who does math would have thought.

Paul Colligan [42:47]
You know, I drove by I grew up in Germany, my folks work for that worked for the US military. And I grew up in Germany, and I love European food. And I was driving by a very standard strip mall kind of situation and nothing exciting about the place in the store. It opened up it was European deli and love European foods I go in. And it was a very specific type of Polish cooking, that if you were Polish, or had Polish food growing up, it would really make you feel good. And it’s that home cooking comfort food for a tiny demographic, that does not exist in the strip mall that this European deli was located in. I’m sure the food is great. But it wasn’t food that I was interested in, you know, and having driven by a couple times, it was food that nobody that I could tell it was really interested in and on behold, they went out of business pretty quickly. You know, and Podcasts are the same. Yeah, but the thing is, at least with the deli, I mean she had to buy some cooking equipment and sign a lease, you know, and with this rice pudding place. They had to sign a big lease this was this was a Frou Frou ball is one of them fancy balls, Mario, you know, and they had to put some money down, you know, but in Podcasting, again, pick up that Spotify or you know, pick up that Anchor app. You know, you’re on Apple in a couple days doing this. Hello, is this on? You know, and not wondering where you know, money comes from? That’s just the game.

Mario Fachini [44:18]
Yeah, because even with Anchor, it’s free. You don’t even need a plan. And when you’re saying pick up a microphone, a lot of people already have them in their phones or their laptops or whatever the heck.

Paul Colligan [44:30]
You don’t have a microphone in your phone. You might want to take it back to the store because they typically come with that. Yeah.

Mario Fachini [44:36]
Oh, well, depending on who you ask. They want might want to take the microphone out. Well, yeah. And if anyone is wondering, we’re making jokes about the five and $10 plan. I wouldn’t recommend either of them. I would recommend Libsyn and one of their advanced plans. You can use promo code shine. Libsyn is awesome. So, use them, don’t use Anchor.

Paul Colligan [44:57]
Let’s get the real Libsyn hack. I felt bad sharing this hack, until Rob came on my show. And then he shared the hack.

Mario Fachini [45:05]
Hopefully, sure.

Paul Colligan [45:06]
I feel fine sharing this. So, here’s the deal. Libsyn only bills on the first of the month. Okay. So, if you were to sign up for Libsyn and use the coupon code shine on November 2, you get it free until December 1, when they would bill you, and then they would see your coupon code and you get it free for December as well. So, that shine coupon code literally gives you, two months minus a day of free access.

Mario Fachini [45:36]
Yeah, I’ve used them since before I got started. And I think they’re awesome. And it’s Another common question with the Anchor, Libsyn, the 15 others, it’s like, it’s just part of it, just focus on the content, don’t worry about it so much. So, I got one question I want to ask you, and then we’re gonna go to The Wheel of Whatever, thank our sponsor, and come back for The Imperfect Extra Round. The last question I had, I was gonna ask for The Wheel of Whatever, but it’s kind of; I don’t think it’s that good. But I did want to know the answer. How many episodes should you launch a Podcast with, why? Well, well, what’s the answer? And why would you say that over what the traditional one is?

Paul Colligan [46:20]
You’ve heard too many of me, one launch with one, your audience wants to be part of something. They want to be part of something. So, if you launch with one, they were there from day one, you know, and that’s the audience that you’re building out. And it’s absolutely brilliant. People say five, People say 10, People say 20. Because they say that the downloads count, the downloads don’t count, and they don’t download. But other than that, you’re good to go. Big hotshot name, I’m allowed to add, I’m allowed to share this with JJ virgin. I don’t know if she didn’t believe me or didn’t trust me enough at the time or whatnot. She wanted 10, I wanted one, we compromised three. What was interesting was if you took the amount of downloads of Episode One, and Episode Two, added them together, multiplied by them by 10. That was still less than the downloads of Episode Three. So, it’s just a bad idea.

Mario Fachini [47:08]
Okay.

Paul Colligan [47:10]
And on another conspiracy theory show, we’ll go as to why people say 10, but it’s just really bad idea. Launch with one. asked him what they thought of one, fix it number two as what they thought of to fix and number three,

Mario Fachini [47:21]
So, get feedback from the audience?

Paul Colligan [47:23]
Say a mistake 10 times in a row.

Mario Fachini [47:26]
So, ask the audience and interact with them. Don’t just keep putting stuff out. All right. So, here’s the fun question that I think is better than that. Because I kind of whatever, but this is The Wheel of Whatever. Okay. And I’m going to spin it for your question, even though it’s already my head. Okay. Your question is, what do you think it takes to get to 300, 500, 1000 plus episodes? And why don’t most people do it?

Paul Colligan [48:07]
Well, it takes recording to 300, 500, 1000 episodes. And most people don’t do it because didn’t have a plan to beginning. They didn’t adjust at the beginning. They’re not there for the long term. You know, that’s why they didn’t do it. You know, it’s, you know, 300 episodes takes the recording of 300 episodes. It’s just not that complicated. You know, and if you don’t have a plan to get you to 10, you don’t have a plan to get you 100 to 300. And you can change, you know, some of my favorite podcasts. I’m Michael Hyatt. And his original show, which the name escapes me at the moment. It was funny because we did Episode 100. he basically told the world Yeah, the last 10 or so episodes have been calling it in, I’ve kind of hated this whole model. And so starting Episode 101, we’re going to start Season Two of the show. And instead of being a monologue going to be a dialogue, instead of the audio, we’re gonna be video, instead of being 40 minutes longer than 20 minutes, I basically changed everything. And you know, my initial thought was, can you do that? You know? Yeah, actually, you can. And, because why, because you’re in charge, because you’re not just immediate, but you’re the network. And so, you know, it’s just starting Episode 101. He started with fresh and I think he’s in four or five seasons in right now and has made significant changes along the way. But he was just playing a long game. And people don’t get it when they don’t play the long game.

Mario Fachini [49:23]
Excellent. Well, I appreciate that. Because God gave me the vision from the start. And there’s a reason I labeled my episode numbers the way I did, and it’s been fun so far, but I’m not going anywhere. And I was just curious, because I know after 100, 200, which I’ve passed Now, there’s not a lot of it gets it keeps getting less and less for the number of shows that get to that point. Well, thank you for that. I love how you always simplify everything. I was half expecting a big altruistic like this big. things like, I’m gonna get some secret sauce here. And what’s it takes to do 300 plus episodes, right?

Paul Colligan [50:05]
Simplicity is sometimes the secret sauce, my brother.

Mario Fachini [50:07]
All right? Well, I appreciate that we’re gonna thank our sponsor and come back for The Imperfect Action Round.

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Mario Fachini [51:44]
And we are back with The Imperfect Action Round. Paul, are you ready to take Imperfect Action?

Paul Colligan [51:50]
Sure.

Mario Fachini [51:52]
So, I got a couple of questions. There’s 60- second, quick answers. And the first one is what is the fastest path to the profits?

Paul Colligan [52:04]
Giving them what they want and giving them what they want and are willing to pay for.

Mario Fachini [52:09]
Excellent. Number two, what is the biggest problem you see your prospects making? And the fastest way for them to fix it?

Paul Colligan [52:16]
No plan, making a plan?

Mario Fachini [52:20]
All right, number three, what is the best way to maximize customer lifetime value?

Paul Colligan [52:27]
Find out what they’re willing to pay for, you’re giving it to them?

Mario Fachini [52:31]
Very good. What books would you recommend for Expert Authority World that have made a difference in your life?

Paul Colligan [52:40]
Okay, I’m gonna go with some of the nontraditional ones. The E-Myth Revisited. A fantastic book, The E myth that has nothing to do with electricity or online or anything, The E-Myth is actually the entrepreneurial myth. And I’m going to pull on way back from that there’s one called the Clue train Manifesto. And it’s an older book, it’s back to this whole thing of why the Indies will never lose to the big guys. Because the conversation that we’re having with our audience is so very different. So, those two, I’d recommend for our workweek. Not necessarily because you’re gonna leave it with the four-hour workweek, but it’s it’s gonna force you to think about work entirely different.

Mario Fachini [53:20]
Excellent. Well, I appreciate those. And I’ve really enjoyed this. Where would you like people to find out more?

Paul Colligan [53:31]
Either the podcastreport.com for the show, or it’s funny podcasts is definitely one of those, don’t model what I do. Their podcast report is my lab. Much like this video camera today was part of my lab. I’m learning some things from it, you know, that kind of thing. But it’s fun to see what I’m doing there. The other option, I would just say, podcastpartnership.com. It’s what we’re up to, and what we do.

Mario Fachini [53:55]
Excellent. And I love that you’re always testing stuff out because there’s a fair amount of people I’ve seen rant and rave about something, you know, time goes by, and it’s like, they don’t do anything new or they don’t really, you know, they’re comfortable. And that’s cool. I mean, hey, if you’re gonna get stuck at the level, congrats on making it a high one, but you’ve always been on the cutting edge well and into this decade, and I have no doubt you’ll be doing it for another decade. So, thanks for being you. Enjoyed this a lot. Thanks. Again, Expert Authority World. We have another great episode here today. I’ll see you tomorrow. Have a great day. God bless.

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Expert Authority World [54:50]
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www.EAInterviews.com [55:24]
Hey, thanks for listening to today’s episode. I hope you got a lot out of it. I know I sure did. If you haven’t done so already, I invite you to subscribe to the show. And also be sure to check out EAInterviews.com for complete show notes, the full interview video experience, links to the resources we mentioned and more. Have a blessed day and I’ll see you tomorrow.