Creatively Scaling Your Business In The Most Effective Way Possible with Founder and CEO Of Brainbox Kris Nicolaou on Episode #0238

Kris Nicolaou [0:00]
Hi, my name is Kris Nicolaou. I’m the owner of BrainBox Labs. And you’re listening to EA Interviews.

Intro [0:05]
EA interviews, Episode 238. inspiration, transformation, success stories and the imperfect action round seven days a week. Join Mario Fachini for today’s Expert Authority Effect Interview.

Mario Fachini [0:19]
Web design and developments and marketing, Oh, my, these are a few of my favorite things, because so many people don’t want to talk about them. But guess what, fam, you need to because they’re part of your business, they’re not going anywhere. And I loved about a decade ago, whenever it was going, you know, all the social media is going to take over websites. Are you insane? Respectfully, Are you insane? Because everything on the internet is either text, image, video, encode, well, it’s all code. But we look at all the stuff around us. And we just think it’s this big thing. And it’s so just breaking it down to its simplest parts like Earth, it’s like dirt, water, air, helium, plasma, all that if you want to get in the fourth dimension, all that. My point is, all of these are needed. And I’m super excited to have Kris Nicolaou, here, CEO and founder of Brain Box, and we’re gonna be talking about web design, applications development, and all the things you may be overlooking, and probably are, and you shouldn’t be if you want to win this next decade, I’m going to bring them up. Right after we thank our sponsor.

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Mario Fachini [1:47]
Here he is, ladies and gentlemen, Kris Nicolaou. Kris, how are you feeling today?

Kris Nicolaou [1:52]
Good. Thank you for having me.

Mario Fachini [1:54]
Oh, The pleasure is mine. I think it’s so great what you’re doing because like I was saying in the intro, so many people overlook this or just kind of kick it with a stick? And I want to know, why do you think more people don’t care about the design, the marketing, the web design, the app development, all these things that can give them such leverage and such an advantage in their business? How come you think, you know, people just don’t care more?

Kris Nicolaou [2:20]
Well, I don’t necessarily think that they don’t care. I do think that they don’t understand, then like anything that we don’t understand. It’s one of the things that you put off and you just don’t even know how to approach. I know, for myself, it’s things that I don’t know how to do. I mold them over a lot. Before I get to the point where I’m like, okay, I understand what I need to do here, or at least how to approach this before I approach it. So I don’t know where to start. And selfish plug, but this is where we come in as BrainBox and your clients come to us not knowing anything, or how to approach anything. We start off with discovery and figure out what they actually need, figure out what the pain points are in their business, understand their business, so that we can help centrally.

Mario Fachini [3:20]
So for an expert authority world, where would you say one of the key places they could start that you find most often is, you know, nine times out of 10, across the board?

Kris Nicolaou [3:35]
Well, I think the first thing is, make sure you have a website, make sure you have a domain, make sure you have a website, if you don’t have that, then contact someone immediately. But let’s just say you do have a website, and you maybe had it for a few years. You know, look at your competitors, and understand what they’re doing well, and what they’re not doing as well. And you know, that’s a good starting point to say to yourself, where do I rank in comparison to them, and that there’s also a bit of a gut check, a bit of an ego check there. Because some people will look at their site and always think that it’s better, always just assume that you know what anyone else is doing, they’re doing it better. And no, I think that there comes a point in time where they then realize that the competitors have surpassed them and kind of gone way beyond them, where they now they’re in the catch up mode, rather than staying kind of neck and neck with a competitor. So I think just evaluating where you are in the landscape in comparison to your competitors, not saying that you always have to be, chasing or, you know, wanting more than your competitors, but just understanding that, hey, you are in an industry you have a playing field, so make sure that you’re putting your best foot forward.

Mario Fachini [4:55]
Now, when you’re saying steam that connects with the competitors, I was gonna make a joke about. I’m sure They’re leaps and bounds ahead because they’re using a 16 point font versus 14. But, you know, aside from the fonts and the colors and all that, what would you say that they should be looking for on the competitors site and their own? Should you have a video on the main page? Or, you know, I’ve heard that slows it down? Should you have an opt in? You know, what are some things that are even worth saying, should we be doing this or not? Because you can make jokes about the font and the colors and all that, but that stuff always changes, and, and also the framework, you know, WordPress, Drupal, Joomla, Magento, all these different things. I mean, it’s like the apple and the Mac and PC. You can start an argument about all of this. But if we just flush all that away, what would you say is the most important?

Kris Nicolaou [5:51]
Yeah, that’s a really good question. So I would start, you know, again, if we’re taking a look at your site critically, I would start with, again, evaluating competitors first. If you didn’t understand the industry, would you be able to understand what they do within the first five seconds of visiting a site? So that’s the very first thing. The second thing is do they lead you down a path to something? So normally, it’s like you said, like, there’s a forum or something that is the end goal. So are they doing a good job of leading you down a path. And we normally achieve that through navigation and kind of hinting the user to go down a certain path. But that’s, I think that is where the two kinds of main things that I would focus on. And when we do discovery, that’s what we do focus on, you know, we’re doing discovery for a client right now, where their site was targeted, or their site was positioned to target a certain audience, but it didn’t actually work out the way they thought it would. And the audience that they were trying to target didn’t really make sense. So what we’re doing now is we’re taking a look at the site as its site, in its entirety, all the content that’s on the site, not saying we rewrite the content or do anything, just taking a look at what’s out there, what you’re trying to achieve, and define that path. So you know, for them, it’s looking at the analytics and all these different things, you then see the trends that users are looking to validate them, they go to the about page, they go to, you know, the services page, and then they skip over and contact them. So what we wanted to do was craft a navigation that depicted that path, the users went down anyways, so with a few other pieces in between where they would get contact requests for silly questions. So, you know, we introduced that FAQ page there. And this might sound very simplistic, but after looking at the sum of all the parts and understanding what’s going on, is when we can actually make decisions or good decisions on what the client should do for the new website that we’re designing and developing for them.

Mario Fachini [8:06]
What I’m hearing there is it really depends on what’s the industry, what’s the site that you’re doing, because I have multiple online properties. So for instance, EAInterviews.com where your show notes are going to be, that’s different from MarioFachini.com because one is me, a two time international best selling author, speaker, consultant. And there’s a little bit of reference to the show. And I’m pretty sure it’s hyperlinked, because I want that cross traffic. But if you’re hearing the show, like right now, for the first time, you might not know about any of the other stuff. And that’s fine, I’m not mad at you and then I have the company IWD now marketing and publishing, which is strictly, I don’t wanna say strictly because I made sure they’re all cross promoting. But that’s more of the services and stuff that my team and I provide, that, again, may or may not have anything to do with the show, and frankly, may or may not have anything to do with me as a speaker consultant. So I found the analytics there. You know, you gave me the best compliment about the Dupree video about getting prepped and making sure you have the right lighting and camera and how are you feeling right now you’re looking on sounded great.

Kris Nicolaou [9:20]
They sound great. All the recommendations definitely helped me put it probably helped put myself at ease for coming on here. Because, you know, like you said, you want everyone to look and feel their best. And I definitely feel good. And we did audio checks and things like that. And that, to me, shows that you care and they take pride in your work. And, you know, those are the types of clients that we work with as well as people that actually take pride in what they do.

Mario Fachini [9:51]
Yeah so you don’t want someone not caring about what they do. And I noticed on my own analytics that that secret page that only the VIP guests get traffic. And there’s been times where I’m doing, you know, I’m months out with the show. And there’s tons of traffic going to all the hidden pages. And I’m like, how do I get more to the front facing ones that the public sees? Because you can see that with the analytics. But if you’re not tracking that stuff is the point. How do you even know where to go? You mentioned that people go to the about page. Where else would you say is a common page that people should be focusing on?

Kris Nicolaou [10:31]
Right. It really does depend on what type of site you have. So you hit the nail on the head there. Commonly, surprisingly, the above page gets a lot of traffic. And people actually want to know who this person is or who this company is, or who is run by. So a lot of people do discredit I know I did in my earlier career, discredit the about page and, you know, whatever you throw your vision on there, like why does anyone read that, but if they’re validating and betting who you are, as a company, you know, that may not be the first one, they may go to services. And that’s where I was leading, they may go to services first. Sorry, they may go to services first. But they’ll end up on the about page because, you know, does this company offer the services that I need? Yes or no? Okay, great. What about their service? Okay, that all sounds good. Now, who are they? So it may be the first question they ask, and they may go to the About Us page first. Or they may go to the services first to say it, does this company offer what I need? And then let me see who they are. And then I have some questions that I need to answer in slogans and FAQs that aren’t there, or maybe some resources or blogs or whatever that whatever that is, and then again, to the image of gold contacting, and that’s very generalizing all websites online. But, you know, if you’re looking at that, from a common as a common structure, It holds true with about 70% of sites, maybe 90% of informational based sites. So where people have or companies have products and services.

Mario Fachini [12:08]
Well, I’m glad you’re bringing that up. Because personally, especially with guests on the show, a lot of people can be pre vetted or referred, and I’m very thankful for that. But I still go and check out the social, the website and all of this. And as a consumer, when I’m looking to get something, I mean, frankly, there’s so many companies that all do the same, I’m just gonna say the same thing, even though I know they’re all individual, they have vision statements and all this. But realistically, it’s not like it’s 1923, where there’s one company that makes cars, one that makes dishwashers. There’s dozens of competitors in every single niche. But the companies that personally are more conscious for me, or they have a contribution, focus, they have more heart, they’re helping people, they’re doing something good with the profits. It’s not just, you know, we’re transactional based, you can tell, and I will always lean on those same things with the guest, I’m not going to have someone on the show that’s about me, me, me, me, me. So I’m always looking through the about page, because the services, it’s like, I don’t imagine, you know, for talking to service based industry, if you’re going to a car repair shop, one might be 1000 for repairs, one might be what 800 or 1200, they’re going to be a 10 to 20% Delta. It’s not going to be 1000 and 6000. Yeah, they’re all pretty much the same. And that’s why I think it’s so important because I’m smiling, because I am saying everything that you don’t want consumers to be saying with oh, yeah, you’re the same as everyone else. What’s the difference in price, the set the other thing, and that’s all the joy and I’m doing it to demonstrate? That’s exactly the conversation in the prospects head that you have to cut through. So how are some of the ways you cut through it?

Kris Nicolaou [14:03]
I think you were maybe in my head, but I think you were alluding to it is, you know, what is? We work with a lot of insurance companies’ brokerages, let’s just say. And so an Insurance Brokerage is a very classic or traditional business model. And how do you differentiate one from the other? It’s very difficult, but each company has their own unique proposition or how do I phrase it? I phrase it or ask them the question. You know, what makes you unique? And this is normally a question during discovery where I push back a lot, because you know, if I was to ask you what makes you unique, like what makes your podcast unique? Let’s do it together. Let’s see if we can.

Mario Fachini [14:55]
What is going on today? This is what puts me on the spot.

Kris Nicolaou [15:00]
Go for it. I’m fine. So, yeah, so what makes your podcast unique? What separates you from your competitors?

Mario Fachini [15:08]
It’s live streamed, a lot of shows don’t live stream. It’s a high quality video. And it’s recorded. It’s not just audio, I have some of the best guests in the world.

Kris Nicolaou [15:22]
That’s good. Let’s stop the good.

Mario Fachini [15:23]
Thank you. That’s what I lead with. Because I’m just hearing myself going. I’m just hearing the devil’s advocate going, Yeah, well, I live stream too. I do video too. And I also have great guests. What makes me unique is my standard of excellence. Because I know no one can touch that.

Kris Nicolaou [15:42]
The thing, this is where we get to, and you already got to that, and we had a little conversation before. And this is kind of the banter that we had. But it’s true that that to me was your unique selling feature, the quality, how high quality the podcast is the video, the audio, the attention, your attention to detail. So that’s what I would try to pull it in. And during those conversations, they’ll often say things exactly, you went through the whole, like the mental motion that I go through with them, but I question them. And it’s often a question where we kind of get stuck a little bit. But where they will say, yeah, the best guests. And I’m like, okay, well, other podcasts are great.

Mario Fachini [16:27]
Anyone can say that.

Kris Nicolaou [16:28]
That’s exactly what I come back to them with, like, the other companies will say the same thing. Our products and services are superior. I listen, I agree with you.

Mario Fachini [16:39]
Compared to who?

Kris Nicolaou [16:40]
Yeah, but your competitors will say the exact same. So what makes you unique? What can we leverage here, and if you are a company in that industry where it’s swarming with competitors, you need to figure out a way to separate yourself from them. And this is where you have to take a little bit of pride in your work, like, what are you proud of, and even for myself as a business owner, I don’t like to boast, I don’t like to talk about my business. And I know, the purpose of me coming on podcasts was to, hopefully, give up some information, give up some knowledge to help people so that they know what to do with their business. And it was not, again, because I hate talking about myself, I hate doing that kind of business development portion of the business. And I understand that it’s necessary. But I’d rather do something like this where I can, you know, it’s almost like people are picking my brain, and I can give them valuable information that I couldn’t do one on one for every single person in the audience that’s listening.

Mario Fachini [17:51]
I think it’s great that you are doing it, because one of the things that stuck out to me with what you’re doing is you’re not just web design, you’re not just app development. There was something that I saw, tell me more about the drawings and the logo and the design, and for sure, that looked awesome. And I don’t know, there’s one person that stands out that does design an identity. And I want to ask you, what’s the difference between those, but I don’t think they take it to the degree you do, I think they’re more strictly like logo design, like straight up logo you’re making, I don’t want to say any more explain the process, because you’re definitely doing more of it.

Kris Nicolaou [18:36]
Thank you. Yeah, he. So just in general, the scope of what we do is end to end products. So imagine you had a product and it’s an online product, so you have something maybe you want to sell or there’s something for the user to do online. Again, I do relate it back to insurance companies we work with, where they have an auto quarter online where you can get your auto insurance online, rather than speaking to a broker. So just kind of automating those more manual processes that are more traditional, again, bringing them over technology and allowing us to automate those. So we build a product like that, that’s an example of one product, so we build that product, then we need to brand that product, we need to come up with a name, we need to market that product. So not only is there that product website where you do those things, but we then come up with the brand for it, we design the logo in you know all the facets of the brand. And we create that marketing, you know, that marketing site with landing pages and, you know, we do all those things so that we have that end to end product so you can market and sell that product effectively online. And in terms of just if we go to one of the pieces which is that logo design, nor logo design processes is It’s very, it’s long. It’s long, and it’s detailed. And the reason why is because we start out with sketches, then we sketch out ideas. Well, we take the design questionnaire, and we’ll ask you questions about your business and just about how you feel like the similar question that I would ask that I asked you previously, you know, what makes you unique? And we build that into the design, the sketches of that, and we show you the like, hand, you know, pencil sketches? and say, what do you think about these, and there’s about 20, you know, let’s just say about five to 10 pages of those, and we distill it down to about 20 ideas. And we present you 20 ideas, and I say, what do you think about all these things, you’re like, I like this direction, like this direction, we refine, and we show you again, and we digitize, and we show you and we add color, and then we add the fonts. And, you know, in the end, you get this beautifully designed logo, but you were the one that led us down that path, we just used your information to kind of create the idea. So again, this is why whatever we do is unique to you. So we do that. And once that’s done, we create the whole brand package around that. So this is how your logo is going to be going forward. And anyone else that uses your logo, they have to use it in this way, because we don’t want to use your logo, it’s so important, we spent all this time with you. And this is the essence of your company, nobody should be allowed to touch it. So and that again, that’s the smallest or simplest part of that and then process.

Mario Fachini [21:33]
What you just covered there with no one should be able to touch you. That’s the key. Because what you do is vastly different than we’re going to throw up Drupal, Joomla, WordPress site and we’ll add your logo will add the paid like, I don’t want to demean it because it’s truthfully what I started with, over a decade ago, made a lot of companies happy. Yeah. But there’s a big difference from when I can push the buttons and know how to do the work. And frankly, I never did just that. I’m simplifying it. But there’s people who that’s all they lead with. And they’re doing a little bit more too but when I saw what you were doing, I was like there’s I have not seen any other companies doing the full process like you’re talking about. And one of the characters the little bunny just sticks out in my head is the one I was thinking of.

Kris Nicolaou [22:28]
Right. That was for an insurance company called insurance jack. That was one of the first insurance brokerages that we worked with. And we came up with the name, the brand, everything. So that one’s a little dear to my heart. And I loved working on that project. It was tough to kind of put that all together and market that and make that successful. But, you know, in the insurance brokerage industry, that’s one of the things I hear often is oh my gosh, you were the ones that did insurance jack and I said yeah, that we were the ones again, I don’t really market it, we don’t really market ourselves in that way. And I again, I don’t really like boasting about anything but…

Mario Fachini [23:12]
It’s not boasting. I mean, I’ll give you my perspective on whether there’s a lot of people who do this or they do very little, but they can run their mouths. So they get the attention whether they’re good or not. I do give them credit on what is not consistency, persistence? Because nothing hurts me more than seeing good people that are doing great things. But they don’t want to talk too much. They don’t want to say too much and they just best case scenario have a smaller market share. Yeah, and so many of them like you, you’re doing all this cool stuff, but I don’t think it’s boasting one bit. Are you open to a reframe?

Kris Nicolaou [24:04]
Of course. I am always open.

Mario Fachini [24:07]
I have told clients this forever and especially with profit margins and stuff. I go, do you really care about your customers? Yeah, of course. Then how come you’re not ensuring you’ll be around three to five years from now?

Kris Nicolaou [24:21]
Wow. That’s yeah.

Mario Fachini [24:25]
You’re not bragging, you’re ensuring you’re there so that older people aren’t getting screwed around. And that you can provide the best level of customer service for them. Because you are.

Kris Nicolaou [24:38]
I love that. That is because I struggle with this. And you know you hit the nail on the head and this is a part of the reason why I never did it is because there are the people that really don’t know and they talk the most and it really bothered me. But you know, I have to get over that. I got to get over the fact that the people that are doing it don’t often talk about it until they get to a certain point. But you’re right to secure the business for the future. And for my current clients, I want you to send me that word for word, please, after this is that was, that was amazing. I’m not I’m not joking. I’m not. I’m not begging you for no reason. That was amazing.

Mario Fachini [25:24]
I appreciate that. I’m glad this is not only being live streamed but recorded. I have an awesome show team that will be taking care of all the transcripts in the show notes. Or I don’t remember verbatim what I said, you don’t have to get so ingrained, I just say stuff sometimes. So ask me anything else. But this, there’s a clip of this and definitely be in the show. There’s full transcripts of every episode. So I’m glad, but I always preface it because, you know, I said, Are you open to a reframe because not everyone is, if you’re not, you’re not receptive to it, and nothing irritated me more. In addition to that, I’ve been on that side. And I was like, Ah, you know, it is also when you’re giving, and I’m sure you’ve had this when you give someone advice, and they’re just like, in like, a week, a month, or a year later, they come back. And there’s a thing I’ve shared on social media before it’s called the ask hole.

Kris Nicolaou [26:26]
Player.

Mario Fachini [26:27]
It’s like, you just give them the same advice over and over. And it’s so thank you for being receptive, but I know where you’re coming from. And I was like, you have so much to share. You shouldn’t ever feel bad about it. And the cool thing is your personality and your heart is so here, that you could do a whole full day training seminar. And it would still never come off as boastful or arrogant, because it’s not who you are at the core.

Kris Nicolaou [26:54]
Thank you, I appreciate that. And I try to be my genuine self. Because if somebody meets me, like, this is who I am. So I want them to know the person that I am. And that also, I’m a real person, I’m not just you as much as the company succeeded. And we have done things. By the way, if anyone doesn’t know, like, starting your own business is the most difficult thing ever. So we are regular people. And we’re not not extraordinary? Or maybe we are in some cases, or then we have a little OCD to make sure everything’s perfect. But I think in general that people don’t understand it just takes a lot of grit and takes a lot of determination. And that’s where, yeah, you know, to your point, when you’re saying, Are you open to a reframe. This is where I think people don’t get it, that they put up this ego shield, and it’s very self serving. So anything that you tell them, they’re kind of, you know, they have the ego shield up, and they’re blocking the information that you’re trying to give them. It’s not good. And you know, as a part, as a part of our company culture, it’s to check your ego at the door. It’s actually a little bit more aggressive than that in terms.

Mario Fachini [28:11]
Oh really? Can you elaborate?

Kris Nicolaou [28:14]
Would you like me to?

Mario Fachini [28:15]
Absolutely. I mean, I know you can catch myself like, will you elaborate?

Kris Nicolaou [28:23]
I will. And if I can pardon my language, then if that’s okay with you, okay. It’s our model, it is free. And the reason why it’s for the shock value. And the reason why I say that is because if they can check their egos, and they can leave their ego at the door, and again, like that’s a big thing for us. It doesn’t matter who you are in the company, you could be an intern, or a junior, or anyone. If your idea is better for the client than mine, your idea wins. No, it doesn’t. I don’t care. It’s whatever is best for the client. And if everyone has, or if there are egos there, that we all don’t grow, you know, there will be someone who is defending something that’s not better than someone else’s. We can’t get to the point where we need to be if we aren’t open to better ideas, and just, you know, to someone telling us something we don’t want to hear. And that’s why I say check your ego at the door, or what I said previously,

Mario Fachini [29:31]
I can’t agree more and that’s why I love bringing great people on my team because I’m not the best at everything. There is frankly a whole lot of stuff I shouldn’t be doing or touching

Kris Nicolaou [29:41]
Right.

Mario Fachini [29:41]
Or care about but it has to get done. And they love it.

Kris Nicolaou [29:46]
Yeah, I am crazy. Yeah.

Mario Fachini [29:49]
I love that. I’ve asked people for years. I was like, you know, cuz I do what I do in industry daily, but I’m not doing 58 different things in every single niche, I’m aware, I’ve done it at some point. And I’m thankful for that. But unless you’re doing anything, and it doesn’t matter, business personal or whatever, unless you’re doing it daily, you’re not going to be on the cutting edge of it. So I love when, you know, instead of being afraid to ask the boss, hey, you know, what have you thought about this for, let’s say the show? I love it, when it’s like, hey, this thing’s gonna be changing in the next quarter, maybe we should implement it. Thank you so much for letting me know. Because that would have been a horrible week to like, backfill it.

Kris Nicolaou [30:36]
Yeah. And as a company, we do monthly retrospectives on the company, to ask everyone, what do you know, what are you happy about? What do you sad about what are you confused about within the company, so that we can make those changes on an ongoing basis so that we’re not, you know, we’re not falling behind technology, we’re not doing things in an integrated way, or we work so hard, or you work so closely with our clients and work so hard on their projects, that we don’t get a lot of time to work on ourselves. So this gives us an opportunity to really be critical about ourselves and really make change. And once I realized that, as a business owner, that I can’t do everything myself, and I need these people around me too. I can’t come up with all the ideas either. So I need people around me that are intelligent, and I surround myself with those people that are willing to maybe cross the line sometimes and say something that, you know, even for myself, I don’t want to hear. But as a leader, I do take time to think about it after the fact, and understand what they’re trying to say, not what they said. And it often is something of great value for the company. And we implement it.

Mario Fachini [31:50]
That is so powerful, what you’re sharing and just your your heart and mindset, because as leaders, again, for our customers and clients, if we’re not around as a company, we’re leaving them to other people who don’t care, but as CEOs and leaders, if we’re not doing what’s right for the company in our teams. There may not be any clients to have a company. And I’m also thinking about, not just am I going to be around in three to five years for my clients, but also my team, because they’re counting on that.

Kris Nicolaou [32:27]
Absolutely, that’s a really good point. And it’s a scary thought as business owners, you work so hard to make sure that it seems so easy for them. And I want them to come into work every day and not have to deal with anything with you know, not saying clients. People say there’s no bad clients, there aren’t any bad clients, but people do have bad days, we’re humans. So to think that you’re never, you know, every single client is going to be amazing every single time you do, you’re lying to yourself. So but I mean…

Mario Fachini [33:00]
Welcome to my delusion.

Kris Nicolaou [33:01]
Right. But I make sure I look after those things. So all they have to do is come in and focus on being creative in what they do. So they’re not distracted by anything. And again, as business owners, we take on that burden. And but it’s you know, it’s also very rewarding. We employ people, they have jobs, they feel valued by what we do with them, so at least I hope they do. I hope they’re listening and hope they do. But, you know, again, with the monthly retros, and stuff like that, that we do at BrainBox. It’s, I, especially in the last year, you know, we’ve made a lot of positive changes. In the last couple years, let’s just say a lot of positive changes, more focusing on the team and how they can be better. And we’ve always had a focus on it, but it wasn’t like our primary focus. And it’s really shifted and really seen the results, the company has grown significantly by investing in those people. And if you don’t think the people are the core of your business, at some point, you’re going to hit a roadblock or a bump in the road. And those people aren’t going to be there to support you because you weren’t there to support them.

Mario Fachini [34:18]
I mean, as efficient as robots can be, you definitely don’t want an entire company of them. It’s not about the efficiency because I’ve had clients, I’ve said that I’m thinking of one from over a decade ago where I sent the wrong invoice to the wrong company. And that I was freaking out. This was in my early early days. And I was like, oh my gosh, what am I gonna do? They’re gonna fire me and all this all. I’m not like running, you know, worst case, cliffhanger scenario. And as I was typing the email back to I’m so sorry, I got a phone call and it was like, Hey, how’s it going? And I thought they were just gonna show me out and it was actually the other secretary who I was nice to when I was there in person multiple times. Don’t worry about it, I already got it. You don’t even need to shoot me an email, I go, Well, I just finished typing it as you were calling. She goes, I’ve done it myself, you know what I mean? It’s just that like, yeah, I found that more often than not, most of the businesses out there that are doing good. They do have some forgiveness built into them. And I like to extend it to people too, because there’s plenty of times I’ve screwed up, and it’s like, hey, no problem. And there’s other times I’m like, kind of dropped the ball. Did not you? It’s like, yeah, it’s like, it’s cool. You know, it’s one time and even at one year, it’s not like, it’s all the time.

Kris Nicolaou [35:50]
Look at every person the same, regardless of their client, or an employee or friend, you know, if you make a mistake, just run up to it, and I hold myself to that same standard, own up to it, how are we going to make sure this doesn’t happen again, and let’s move forward together. So it’s one of those things, when you’re in business, or you know, even in your social life, if you make a mistake, own up to it, it is probably the most valuable thing you can do to keep a relationship positive and healthy. So own up to it. And how do you proceed past that? How do you move forward together? And it’s, you know, going forward, then, you know, let’s do this together. Do you agree? Yes, great. And everyone feels good leaving that even though there’s a bump in the road, it’s over, it’s done with, that constantly happens, then there’s, it’s a different story. But I think overall, people are forgiving. And if you treat them with respect, and you demand respect as well, I mean, not demand, but, you know, you show them the kind of respect that that you want that you expect to give them, I think you can have very healthy relationships with clients and employees, friends, everyone,

Mario Fachini [37:00]
What I’m hearing a lot of is the heart and what you carry through to your clients is also what you have on your team. And it’s not coming down to some plugin, or magic SEO or something like that, you just care at your core.

Kris Nicolaou [37:16]
But definitely do. One of the things that separates us from our competitors, or that separates us from work matters is the quality of work that we do. And that’s uh, you know, during tough times, we’ve maintained clients or gotten new clients because of the quality and we have new people come on board every year. And they always ask me, Kris, if we just cut down on the quality slightly, you’d be able to ship this thing faster, and use less hours and all these different things. And I said, Well, if we did that, then we’d be like everyone else. What would separate us from… and again, drain. When there’s tough times, it’s the quality of work that we do that our business continues to grow in , while other companies are suffering, we’re struggling. They understand, the clients understand that hey BrainBox always does quality work. And they own up to their mistakes, they’re honest, they’re dedicated, they’re going to look after us. And again, that quality of work speaks for itself.

Mario Fachini [38:26]
So I want to ask you, how did you get into this take us back to prior to the success and the great company? Where do you even get the idea?

Kris Nicolaou [38:37]
Yeah, that’s a good question. So I want to bring it back, because I think there’s some context there. You know, I’ve spoken about this before, now I’ll go through it quickly. But, you know, when I was in high school, Oh, my gosh, a long time ago, when I was in high school, I didn’t know what I wanted to do. But I did love computers. I was astonished at what you could do, and you can make a webpage and those things. But also I was, you know, I played basketball for the high school team, and then went on to play college basketball. So my head was in, you know, hey, I want to play sports, not, you know, I want to be around sports, and I wanted to really be a physiotherapist, not a web developer or a web development company. I always want to own my own company. I just didn’t know what it would be in. Then as a young person, you’re like, I want to do this. And it’s just something that you say sometimes, some people really mean they didn’t really know it when they’re young. I wanted it but I had no idea how to get it. So when I was in high school, though, I worked for McDonald’s, and I bring this up all the time because I worked there for seven years. I was a manager for five to seven years. But one of the things I appreciate McDonald’s so much and that’s because they teach you everything before you become a manager so to all the different parts. So like you said, you know like, you may not be amazing at all the things but you know all the parts in your business. So kind of, I’ve carried that through to my company, just knowing all the pieces. So then also McDonald’s offers amazing training. And I’m plugging McDonald’s hard here. But I’m just saying that it was amazing training. And again, they send you to leadership training and courses and how to be a manager. And that…

Mario Fachini [40:25]
Hamburger you, right?

Kris Nicolaou [40:26]
Hamburger, you Yeah, so they, they really do a great job at that. So when I decided to go to college, I was really good at design, but I didn’t really know the programming stuff. So I went to college, went to an amazing course, a three year program, and fell in love with development as well. So we had the design and development side. And I got my first job doing design or so during development. Then I went to design and they did both of them throughout the industry in a high level. And then I went and did you know, Cal management, project management, all those different things? Before I decided, why am I doing all this stuff to make another company super successful? Why don’t I just open my own. And again, I always had that in mind to open up my own company. But there was a really, there was a real aha moment when I got to that point where I was doing everything. And this kind of felt similar and felt similar to McDonald’s, where I knew all the parts or I knew pretty much how to do all the parts. I just needed to do it to become a manager to kind of finalize that training. So I gave myself until I was 30. Yes, when I turn 30, I’m like, I have to open up my own company. And before, I believe I was before my 30th birthday, I opened up, I ended up opening up BrainBox. So, you know, and, and not without its struggles, I was kind of incubating a company for a few months before, I would say about six or seven months, just trying to find freelancers and stuff, people that would do good work. And it was when you become a business owner, you think to yourself, I’m really good at what I do. So I’m gonna be able to, maybe run a successful company, but then you quickly realize you got to do all these other things. And this is where I feel that a lot of business owners, or people that want to start their own company, they don’t realize that this is what people say, like, I worked eight hours, and then I worked another eight hours, or whatever the case is, like, I did all the stuff that I need to do during the day to day with clients, and then I had to, after hours actually do some of the production work, or all the production work, you end up doing all the things that you don’t want to do and to run the business successfully. So when I started out, it was a bit grueling, for the first few years. And to be very honest, I paid myself around two grand a month, which, you know, after calculating how many hours I worked, I can’t remember how much it was, but it was somewhere around like, nine to $12 an hour for owning a business, I paid my employees way more than I paid myself what it deemed to pay myself a healthy salary, that goes just either, I think it was just below the EI here employment insurance, so kind of not being on welfare, but being on employment insurance. So while I was working for a company, a business owner, like not making very much money and kind of struggling, but as things went on, and you kind of get to the point, after a couple years, you feel a little more secure. And then after five years, you feel solid, like you have a solid foundation there. And then at that point, I actually started paying myself what I know, well, I started paying myself with one of the employees that I was paying the least I paid myself something to match them. And at this point, finally, I feel like I pay myself relatively well but it took a very long time. And it’s difficult. Even being someone who was single at the time, you know, not having you know, a wife or you know, things to look after, but it’s definitely a struggle and it takes true grit and determination to want to make it work. And there’s definitely points where you want to give up. But you know, if you intelligently stick it out, and I say intelligently because there’s some people who just will ride it out and watch that ship crash and burn because they don’t know when to give up. But if you do all the good you need to do all the healthy things, all the right things can be honest with you. I’ll be honest with your clients, and, you know, work really hard and all those things that people, the cliche things people tell you, but the true you do all those things, and you have a chance to be successful. So, and I’m not saying that BrainBox and myself are wildly successful, but there’s an upward trend. And those are the times when you need to realize that you’ve done good. And again, this is the whole thing of not boasting myself, I think BrainBox I think myself, I’ve done, I’ve done good, but there’s more to come.

Mario Fachini [45:36]
That’s great, because you’re still aiming down the road for more, you’re not just settling where you’re at.

Kris Nicolaou [45:42]
Yeah, and it is tough to not be complacent, and not to settle in and, but also, when you see success, and keep going after it, you don’t have to kill yourself, but keep riding that wave, keep it going, and see where it’ll take you. I think some people do become exhausted or fatigued and, and they don’t want to, but keep pushing, keep pushing. Because if you’re seeing some success, if you keep doing what you’re doing, you’ll be more successful.

Mario Fachini [46:13]
Do you think that some people give up too early?

Kris Nicolaou [46:16]
Yes, I think that some people give up too early. And some people don’t give up early enough. So let’s talk about the ladders. First, so people that don’t give up when they should, I think that this is the determination thing where they see that they can’t see it, they see something’s wrong, and they see something failing, but maybe they don’t know what to do or again, that ego shield, they have an ego up, and they just can’t. They don’t want to realize that it’s failing, when they could just stop what they’re doing right there, transition to something else, or pivot and they’d be wildly successful, potentially, or they’d be more successful. They just don’t know, they keep holding on to something that’s falling apart. We see this in life, people in relationships, people in friendships, all those types of things, and I bring it back to life. So people can relate the audience only to things if they don’t own a business, but it’s the same across the board is that we hold on to things as humans because we want the best for it, whatever that thing is.

Mario Fachini [47:20]
Yeah, it reminds me of this picture that I’ve actually shared. And it’s two hands, one is on the top one is on the bottom. And it’s a rope. You know, think of rope burn? And it says sometimes letting go. is no sometimes hanging on is actually more dangerous than letting go. Yeah, on the one hand it is all bloody and jacked up. And the other one is just open.

Kris Nicolaou [47:48]
Yeah, but really good visuals.

Mario Fachini [47:51]
It’s just always stuck with me. So I’m, I appreciate you for sharing the insight behind the company and how it came to be because, you know, everyone always asks the same, the basic level stuff, but I love learning, you know, what is the mindset? What is the success behind the success that’s led to the success if you will, so thank you again, for sharing that with us. I have one more question with the Wheel of Whatever.

Kris Nicolaou [48:20]
Bring it on.

Mario Fachini [48:22]
And then we’ll thank our sponsor, and come back for the imperfect action round. Where’s it gonna stop, yellow or black?

Kris Nicolaou [48:35]
Black.

Mario Fachini [48:37]
I have no idea. It’s actually on a motor. It’s not going to stop. Just kidding.

Kris Nicolaou [48:44]
I was surprised.

Mario Fachini [48:45]
That was actually pretty cool to me. I have never said that. And that would be actually a pretty cool idea. Just I need a stand for it. To be honest with you. That’s the current iteration but that’d be hilarious if it just started ramping up and…

Kris Nicolaou [48:59]
Faster. Yeah.

Mario Fachini [49:02]
Note to self. And the clicking noise. I want to get some clickers on it for the audio experience you hear.

Kris Nicolaou [49:10]
That would be great.

Mario Fachini [49:13]
Again, that detail, it’s never ending attention. The question is, what is the company you would love to work with that you haven’t yet?

Kris Nicolaou [49:26]
Because sports were so ingrained in my life again, I played varsity basketball. I would love to work with this company. I just don’t know. I would love to work with Nike.

Mario Fachini [49:45]
Okay.

Kris Nicolaou [49:45]
And the reason why I said is I love their brand. I love the things they do. I think they do an excellent job at it. And not related to sports. I think there’s always an underlying positive message. to be active, to engage in team activity, all those things. So I think overall, it’s a very positive brand. The reason why I hesitated was normally when you work for these large companies there I think they’re very demanding. And I say that, honestly, that you settle yourself in small, medium sized companies, because those larger companies, they kind of consume you. And as a business owner…

Mario Fachini [50:30]
They are telling you what to do instead of trusting your advice and experience.

Kris Nicolaou [50:35]
In some cases, yeah. And I say some cases so that people don’t get offended. But I think you’re right. But I will say that…

Mario Fachini [50:44]
But only in some cases.

Kris Nicolaou [50:47]
Only in some cases, right. So and that’s, that’s the thing is, as much as, as much as you want to do amazing work for larger companies. You know, there’s some times where they push back on a decision that you’ve provided them with all the valid reasons why you should do this. And they still, they just wanted a certain way. And again, this is where I feel that people that work for some companies, larger companies that have huge brand names, they have egos, and their ego gets the best of them and the product suffers. So it doesn’t matter if you’re presenting them with the best idea, if they had something that they kind of really like, or maybe it was their idea that they wanted you to produce, they’re going to hold on to that for dear life. So again, I wouldn’t say that Nikes like that, I think there are some large companies like that, but the potential is there, when you’re in a when you work with a large company, but also from a business perspective, if you depend on one large company for all your revenue, you’re not in a good spot, you’re not in a good position. And you’re also, you know, you’re putting yourself in a bad position, because if they ever decide to cut back or move forward with another company, whatever it is, that’s, you could have a real problem on your hands as a company, you know, again, if you have employees. I always put the employees before myself and always cut down my salary or make my salary non-existent before I will any one of them. So, I just never want to be put in that situation.

Mario Fachini [52:24]
So yeah, I can definitely relate to that. And, but it’s good, because we got the heart, we’re going to be long, we’re going to be around a long time, and just don’t back down, it’s not boasting.

Kris Nicolaou [52:41]
I’ll try my best. I’m going to read that line every day. That’s what I’m going to do.

Mario Fachini [52:47]
Well, appreciate everything you’re sharing. We’re gonna thank the sponsor, and come back for the Imperfect Action Round.

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Mario Fachini [54:23]
And we are back with the Imperfect Action Round. Kris, are you ready to take imperfect action?

Kris Nicolaou [54:28]
I’m ready.

Mario Fachini [54:29]
What I have for you is 60 second or less answers. I got three questions. Rapid Fire. First one, what’s the fastest path to the cash?

Kris Nicolaou [54:37]
Build a really good team, build a team around what your core values are as a person, it will build the company and team around those core values and you’ll never feel that the company is moving in a direction that you don’t want. And if you’re honest with yourself in a sense very visible, if you’re honest with yourself, you’ll always want to build that thing. Because it’s an extension of you and you always want yourself to be successful. So inherently you want your business to be successful and the people that are around you, and that brings success.

Mario Fachini [55:03]
Excellent. Number two, what is the biggest problem your prospects are making and the fastest way for them to fix it?

Kris Nicolaou [55:09]
Not presenting themselves or their services effectively or in the right way online, in order for them to change that is to speak about themselves online. Not only who they are right now, but you know where they want to go. So talk about where your products are, and also where you feel like your products will be in six months. Because it’s okay, it’s okay to talk about this is where we’re heading, this is where we’re going. But it’s not okay to have a stale site or, you know, stale marketing that speaks about who you were two years ago.

Mario Fachini [55:43]
Makes sense. Number three, what is the best way to maximize customer lifetime value?

Kris Nicolaou [55:49]
I think honesty is the biggest thing, but producing quality work, you have to do good work. So if you do good work, being honest with them being at being a professional, and when I say being a professional, delivering on time, sticking to your word, doing those, the little things to make sure that you know when they think about you, they think about you as being a solid partner, with their company, someone they can depend on. And that’s really what they’re looking for. They’re really looking to depend on you to do the things that they don’t know how to do. And you know, they trust you. That’s because you’re honest with them, that your attention goes way up.

Mario Fachini [56:27]
Excellent. What books would you recommend to Expert Authority World that have made a difference in your life and business?

Kris Nicolaou [56:34]
That’s a good one. I’m not huge… because of my, I guess my personality type. I’m not a huge reader. However, I think Rework.

Mario Fachini [56:46]
Oh, I love that one.

Kris Nicolaou [56:48]
Yeah, the people who create a base camp. I go back to that every year. And it’s funny because I again, I don’t …

Mario Fachini [56:56]
Readings are toxic.

Kris Nicolaou [56:58]
Yeah, as soon as I read it, it was like a breath of fresh air. Like I opened a door to something that, you know, I always thought about are the things that they talk about are our thoughts that have always had and they really hit those thoughts home and I really like how they presented it. It’s very easy to read. It’s very easy to consume the information and knowledge so I would say, if you put me on the spot, I got scared there for a second. But that’s uh, yeah, I would say that.

Mario Fachini [57:28]
So really great recommendation, love them love base camp and using it the last decade plus. So it’s how we do stuff efficiently with the interviews. So thank you for that. Great, yeah, meetings are toxic. I’m not gonna spoil the whole book, expert authority world get up. But there’s some really great chapters in it. The other one is, I’m not even gonna say it out loud. Nevermind. Okay, so where would you like people to learn more?

Kris Nicolaou [57:54]
So if they go to brainboxlabs.com. Labs with an s, that’s our main website to learn more about us. If they want to connect with me, personally, they can go to my LinkedIn. So it’s Kris with a K. kr is. And hopefully, it’ll be in the show notes. So they can connect we definitely will be yeah, and if anyone, if your audience’s listening and they want to connect with me, by all means, just shoot me a message with your connection, I get lots of requests, send me your unique proposition, what makes you different within that message, and I will reply,

Mario Fachini [58:31]
I like that and couldn’t agree more. I feel the same way. I’ve got hundreds of them just sitting there. And then I go to the ones with the messages first. And if it’s a good message, it takes priority and might get accepted. Now there’s some that just don’t know what to do with them. I don’t want to delete them right off the bat. But I’m also like, none of this makes sense. So thank you for that. Kris. It’s been an absolute pleasure. Thank you for your time. Appreciate it, Expert Authority World.

Kris Nicolaou [58:58]
I appreciate it.

Mario Fachini [59:00]
Alright, expert authority world. We have another great episode here today. I’ll see you tomorrow. Have a great day. God bless.

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www.EAInterviews.com [59:42]
Hey, thanks for listening to today’s episode. I hope you got a lot out of it. I know I sure did. If you haven’t done so already, I invite you to subscribe to the show. And also be sure to check out EAInterviews.com for complete show notes, the full interview video experience links to the resources we mentioned in more. Have a blessed day and I’ll see you tomorrow.