Hawke Media: Your Data-Driven Focused Approach Outsourced CMO with Founder and CEO Erik Huberman on Episode #0229

Erik Huberman [0:00]
Hi, I’m Eric Huberman, CEO of Hawkemedia.com. And you’re listening to EA Interviews.

Intro [0:06]
EA interviews, Episode 229, inspiration, transformation, success stories and the imperfect action round seven days a week. Join Mario Fachini for today’s Expert Authority Effect Interview.

Mario Fachini [0:19]
Have you ever wanted to increase your marketing? Do you have a company and whether it’s a midsize one or a large one, you just were like, I don’t know what to do. And no, I need to be bringing in more leads, but have them qualified. You know, there’s so much to do. Maybe it’s not your specialty. You just want to serve your audience. I’ve had that feeling. And that’s why I’m excited to have TEDx speaker, podcast host and CEO of Hawk media, Eric Huberman here today, he’s got over 180 employees, 500 different clients to the likes of Alibaba, Kswiss, Verizon, and hundreds of other ones. So I’m gonna bring them up. Right after we thank our sponsor.

Sponsor – Free Business Book Publishing Course [0:58]
Every business needs a book, including yours, visit freebusinessbookpublishingcourse.com today to learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. Once again, that’s freebusinessbookpublishingcourse.com.

Mario Fachini [1:13]
Here he is .Ladies and gentlemen, Eric Huberman. Eric how are you feeling today?

Erik Huberman [1:18]
Doing great. How are you doing?

Mario Fachini [1:20]
I’m excellent. I can’t wait to dive in with you. Because marketing is so essential to so many, every business not so many businesses, every single business. Why do you think most people get it wrong?

Erik Huberman [1:33]
You know, I think people take it for granted, I think it’s one of those industries where it feels like, you can just use your best judgment and logic and get away with it. But just like any other vocation, It takes a lot of time and a lot of trial and error. And a lot of a big knowledge base to actually be able to do it well, and marketing versus a lot of other jobs. Doing it well has an infinite upside and infinite downside versus like, a lot of jobs, a lot of vocations. You could do it right or you do it wrong. Marketing, every little tweak, every little difference in how you do it is a difference in ROI is a difference in how things turn out to.

Mario Fachini [2:13]
What do you think most people try to do when they start off with marketing? And what should they be doing?

Erik Huberman [2:22]
Yeah, I think these days, most people go, they put up a website and start running Facebook ads. And what we see is Facebook is a great place to advertise products and services, but you need a good funnel, and you need a good net, and people forget that you don’t see an ad and then immediately go buy something generally, it happens. Don’t get me wrong. But a lot of times, people need to be nurtured. People need to be brought along with the sort of purchase cycle consideration period, to actually go from no learning that your company even exists to actually buying something. And so things like email, marketing, and SMS, and chatbots, and content, all these other things that come into play, that actually helps with conversion, a lot of companies skip over when they’re first starting thinking that like, let’s just run some ads and see how it goes. And the problem is, if it goes well, great, congratulations. But if it doesn’t, that doesn’t mean anything because you’re not doing it right, you’re not running the whole funnel the way you need to.

Mario Fachini [3:14]
Let’s just dive in a little bit deeper with the funnel. If someone’s listening in, they’re not quite sure what a funnel is, or they might not be familiar with the term. Some people call it an onboarding process. And I think I personally take that as more of a, I’m already interested in now you have to onboard me and get me through the thing. But I’ve heard some people just say interchangeably, so how would you define a funnel? And why are they important?

Erik Huberman [3:39]
Yeah, so let’s take a literal funnel that looks like this. And the idea is, at the top of the funnel, you have just anyone that’s become aware of you. Let’s say, actually, at the very top of the funnel, you have the entire world. And then comes the people that are aware you even exist. And then comes the people that are potentially interested in purchasing. And you kind of break the funnel on like every step of the way, like they now know I exist. Now they’ve shown some interest. Now they’ve given me information. Now they’ve shown they’re ready to purchase and now they’ve purchased and then even past that, what you do to take someone that’s already bought from you and continues to buy. And so it gets more and more narrow, frankly, because it’s a percentage of each step that makes it through that next one. That’s why they call it a funnel. But the idea is to bring those big bases along to the point that you’re really getting those people that are ready to buy. And so during that whole transition period of going from where you exist to actually buying something, doing things to help people along is pretty critical.

Mario Fachini [4:36]
So what is the difference from someone like Alibaba and Verizon versus a midsize business? And let me ask. I’ll let you answer that first. And I got another one from something I saw on your website.

Erik Huberman [4:52]
Yeah. So I mean, when it’s that large of a business, their brand equity is out there. So there’s usually a level of trust. We talked about marketing, we’re actually going to be publishing a book about this called the Hawk Method. And we talk about marketing in three different categories: awareness, nurturing, and trust. And we’ve already started kind of talking about this awareness of letting new people know you exist. Nurturing is what you do with that awareness to actually bring them to be a customer. And trust is building that trust that you’re actually going to deliver what you say you’re going to deliver in the way you say, you’re going to deliver it. And when you’re a new company, you don’t have intrinsic trust and are also known as a brand. So getting that through third party validation, meaning things like PR or influencer marketing or word of mouth where someone else is vouching for you helps a lot. And you need those three pillars that are critical to actually making a sale and actually creating a successful marketing campaign. Companies like Verizon, Alibaba, they have intrinsic trust, people already know who they are, they already trust. And when I say trust, I don’t mean that you even have to like it. Like McDonald’s is a good example of this. Like we all, if we buy a Big Mac, we trust we’re getting a Big Mac, we trust that we’re getting a very unhealthy piece of food that might be made partially of cardboard. But I’m not saying you know, I don’t mean to disparage them. But we also like we know, it’s like…

Mario Fachini [6:04]
You’re just being truthful, that it’s not Ruth’s Chris.

Erik Huberman [6:06]
Yeah, correct. But that’s still trust you Troy gets consistency in that sense, you know that what you’re getting you the same thing goes for horizon. Same thing goes for Alibaba, but not the same thing goes for some company, you’ve never heard of that you stumble across the fate of Facebook or Google ad for. So that’s really a big gap in that is two things like when you talk about awareness, nurturing, and trust, Verizon and Alibaba already have a lot of awareness. And they already have a lot of trust, it’s really much more hammering down on the nurturing side of it, to bring people along from you know, we exist, but you should really buy something and then or you’ve already bought something, you should buy more.

Mario Fachini [6:40]
So let’s talk about that intrinsic value of the brand, for the companies that are out there, because I feel like there’s some, and these are more small to midsize, let’s say, if they’re starting off, and they’re still under the million mark, or under the 5 million, you know, that’s a relatively small business. That’s a congrats for them. But that’s a relatively small business in the grand scheme and everything. But why do you think some of them seem to not want to build the brand? I mean, it seems like they just want to get sales and go through it, whereas others, they’re focused on branding from day one and turn it into a brand. Why do you think the branding is so important? And how long do you think it takes to actually get that intrinsic value of trust?

Erik Huberman [7:22]
Yeah, so from a numbers perspective, the brand does a few things. One, it increases your conversion rate, if people trust you, and when you have a built brand, you’re going to convert at a higher level, because people aren’t going through that purchase decision in such a critical way, because they already trust you. And it also creates more longevity of a brand, you don’t need to be spent, it’s not as much of a hamster wheel of because you’ve committed yourself to memory with a lot of people and created that trust and consistency through a brand. You don’t need to be put away by every customer you have. Because you have a base that’s going to always come back that’s always going to talk about you and tell people. And so it really comes down to what business you’re trying to build. There are some great businesses that were built off just direct response marketing, and just that, you know, input output kind of marketing, that they’re not trying to build a brand. They’re just trying to drive people into buying and get them out. And you can do that. It’s not the business I want to build, I think it’s much more volatile and it’s a less stable business, a less secure business. With a brand, you can make a lot of mistakes and still have a sustainable business with a Dr. machine like that you can’t. It’s easy. It’s kind of fleeting, and that business can go away overnight.

Mario Fachini [8:29]
Okay, and how long do you think it takes to establish your brand to be at the point where you have some of that? I’m thinking of a Kevlar suit of armor, you have that? You know, whenever you have some leeway where it’s like, your goal isn’t to mess up. But when you do, because you will you have some leeway the word, yeah, let’s go with that. You have some leeway to just, you know, hey, I’m here. But you know, this isn’t the norm. It’s one out of 100 instances.

Erik Huberman [8:58]
Yeah, I think there isn’t really an answer to that. Because it depends on your own audience. Like, if there’s 10 people that know you’ve been around for 20 years, and it’s just those 10 people and you screw up for one of them. They’re gonna give you leeway if you’re with a, because I have one like a local tire shop where the guy has been changing your tires since he changed your dad’s tires 40 years ago, and it’s a friend of your dad’s like, if he screws up and weaves a nail and one of my tires or something. I’m like, yeah, I know who this guy is. It’s not a big deal. I trust him that’s so it can be on a small scale. Or when you’re talking about large scale, the thing is, it’s bleeding to like it’s something you have to continually reinvest in because you have companies like McDonald’s or Coca Cola that all of a sudden people’s priorities have changed. And now they have to change with them to keep that brand as relevant as it was before. And that’s why you know, coke bought a Suja juice company and McDonald’s is now full of salads and Burger Kings doing the impossible burger like all these things are moved. So understand that their customers are looking for something new and staying relevant, and keeping their brand relevant.

Mario Fachini [10:05]
And I think that’s a great point you’re bringing up because the example I’ve used for years is exactly what you mentioned Coke, Coke and Pepsi. And people go, I’ve been drinking them for 20, 30, 40 years, 50, whatever. Why did they keep advertising? Yeah, because you have, but the next generation hasn’t.

Erik Huberman [10:24]
What not just the next generation. Also let’s take what’s a third party to that? sprites, sprites in my book. But sure, let’s take sprite, this is an example. And now I’m hitting you hard. And you’re and this is true, you’re sitting on your couch watching football. And I’m advertising sprite over and over and over and over again. And even though you’ve drank Coke for a long time, you’re now like, kind of craving a sprite, because

Mario Fachini [10:50]
I haven’t had one in a while. But maybe I should.

Erik Huberman [10:53]
You haven’t had one or like, you normally would go to the store and buy coke. But now you’ve got head sprite implanted in your brain, they’re sitting on the shelf next to each other and you go, you know, that looks really refreshing, boom, I’m just transparent, I just spent money. Now you’ve just transitioned from buying coke to buying Pepsi I just want. So for the big CPG companies, when it comes to advertising, it’s actually about retaining and gaining market share. It’s not customer acquisition, it’s when you go to the store, you pick my soda over someone else’s, when you go to a restaurant, you order my soda over someone else’s. And so with that, there really isn’t a limit, when you’re talking about sodas, which are pretty ubiquitous as far as hitting everybody. Same thing with alcohol, where it’s like, if I’m Bud Light, I just want to make sure when you go buy a beer, it’s a Bud Light. So I’m gonna advertise to you in every way I can make myself relevant so that you go by them.

Mario Fachini [11:42]
Because they’ve already acquired you, but they want to make sure you’re not getting diluted, in their increasing market share.

Erik Huberman [11:48]
Like all of it,.The available everywhere is the idea. So distribution has to come to play with that too. And then the idea is you’re going to pick me over everyone else, whether you have in the past or not, I still need to ensure you’re going to do it next time.

Mario Fachini [12:01]
Keep them that consistency in there. Now, let me ask you about ANW, would they be third party? To my knowledge, I don’t think Coke or Pepsi owns them?

Erik Huberman [12:08]
Yeah, I think you’re right. And that’d be a great example.

Mario Fachini [12:10]
Same thing like with Minute Made, I know, that’s coke. And so let’s talk about that because you’re talking to diversification along the lines, because it’s not just Coke and Pepsi. It’s all the subsidiaries where you go into men have made and, you know, yum brands with Lay’s potato chips, and the Frito Lay and then they’re partnered with Taco Bell, which is owned by the same parent company and all of that. How do you deal with that when you take the same marketing approach? I mean, do you think that they’re all universal or do you hit? Are there some nuances you found from working with conglomerates and their subsidiaries?

Erik Huberman [12:46]
Usually, there’s a customer archetype that fits each and a lot of times, it’s the same, there’s overlap. Like, there’s a lot of people that drink both coke and sprite, like, there’s a lot of people that go to Taco Bell, and KFC I think, too. So, you know, it’s also like the fact that there’s overlap, and that’s where a lot of these conglomerates get it. And there’s, you know, they want individual brands for individual reasons. And people have preferences. I mean, that’s part of it, too. So it’s okay, as you get into the bigger conglomerates to try to grab every micro market is what they’re trying to do and every niche, and sometimes those niches have overlaps, you know, intertwine a little bit. But it’s also grabbing people that may not like KFC, but like Taco Bell.

Mario Fachini [13:28]
So for each of them, whether they’re all subsidiaries of the parent company, or they’re completely different brands, it sounds like you’re focusing on the ideal customer profile. And you’re not just going oh, they’re all the same, because it’s the same company.

Erik Huberman [13:41]
No, not . The financial aspect of it and corporate structure, meaning they’re owned by the same Corporation doesn’t mean anything. There, there’s every once in a while nuance where they want to be careful. But generally, if it’s a smart corporation, they’re not buying fully competitively. Companies like Coke are not buying Pepsi. If they are, they’re probably transitioned, I don’t know enough details about the Coke and Pepsi target. But I guarantee there’s a lot of overlap and combating there. And there’s probably all sorts of Venn diagrams I’m sure there’s probably a lot of, I’ve heard there’s tons of people that will drink coke and not Pepsi, or vice versa. They are different drinks, even though they’re very similar.

Mario Fachini [14:18]
Yeah, I’ve always found it interesting at restaurants where it’s like, Can I get a coke? It’s like, well, is Pepsi. Okay?

Erik Huberman [14:25]
That it’s like, well, is monopoly money. Okay?

Mario Fachini [14:28]
Yeah, I was just thinking of that, too. There’s so many. There’s so many little nuances. But at the end of the day, the business is the business and like you were talking about is that client acquisition isn’t market share, you know, what’s the goal of it? And I think so many people are confused about that. So for someone listening going, well, he works with Alibaba and Verizon, and all these huge companies, I could probably never afford them. I noticed something interesting on your website as you take the role of being the CMO and your approach is a little bit different. So once you go into detail as to how you do it, because clearly something’s working to have started just over five, six years ago and grow to the point you are, what approach are you taking that most companies aren’t?

Erik Huberman [15:14]
Yeah, you kind of highlighted. So number one, our mission is accessibility to great marketing. So we want to make sure that people can easily work with us. But we’re also the best at what we do. It’s that simple, in a sense, like, we want to have the best in the business. But we want to be easy to work with, which is a nuance that most agencies don’t want. If they’re really good at what they do, they generally have a long contract sign minimum, somebody makes them hard to work with. So yes, we work with Nike, Unilever, all these big brands. But then we also work with tiny startups, our fee starts at two grand a month. So we’re able to work with the entire range of size companies and bring the knowledge we get from working with these big ones. And the sort of dirt you know, to the small guys and then bring the knowledge of like the scrappiness, you have to have as a small a new company to the big guys too. And so there’s this balance of our skill sets that really pull from both to help each other, which has been great.

Mario Fachini [16:07]
So the big guys, they have all the branding and advantage in that regard. But I know it’s harder to steer a big ship than just being lean and nimble and everything. Conversely, the smaller companies, you mentioned the local tire shop. You have the agility, but they might be working on the branding. So in instances like that? Would you help the smaller ones with the branding? In addition to the other?

Erik Huberman [16:38]
So our methodology is not like it’s not just branding. So we’ll go look at what do we think they’re missing based on the marketing mix that we have?

Mario Fachini [16:46]
Alright, so you might do some direct response marketing in there to get clients and leads if that’s what they’re seeking out?

Erik Huberman [16:52]
It’s not and it’s less seeking, it’s what do we where do we think they’re falling short, if they have a great funnel and a great brand, and they just need some more customers? And the answer is yes, absolutely. If they’re getting a ton of interest, but nobody’s converting, we’re going to look at their funnel, we’re going to look at, well, why, what are you doing to actually convert customers, if they’re having tons of customers come in once and never come back? We’re gonna look at that. So we do a full analysis before we actually recommend, here’s what we’re gonna do. But yeah, the idea is to plug in, everything we do is our cart month to month. So the idea is we’re going to plug in very prescriptively, and exactly what the company needs, and focus on that. And then ebb and flow and changes the company needs it.

Mario Fachini [17:26]
That’s fantastic. Because I know people that only work with smaller companies. And some only work with midsize and I, you know, others only work with the big guys. But I think it’s very unique. And it’s one of the reasons I wanted to have you on the show is because you have this mix of people and like what you just said, you can take the good from here and share it with them. And you can take the good from here and share it with them. And you have this synergistic relationship, which is what I’m always looking for no matter what it is personal, professional, you know, just how can you help someone

Erik Huberman [17:58]
That and I think that there’s a lot to be said about hiring outside resources that you live in breathe this aspect of your business, we do it with a lot of other parts of our business where you know, whether it’s HR certain things where like, we’re not HR experts, compared to an HR expert company. So why not hire some outside resources that help that do this kind of like law firms, I can go hire a GC and try to pull someone off the street. But why not hire a firm that has a process built day in and day out to make sure they were handled through an accounting firm, we’re thinking of the same model for marketing, where it’s like, we might not be the person that’s gonna hide your money in the Caymans. But we know best practices for marketing, and we’re gonna make sure that if anything, you’re doing the right things, and scaling your business. And then for us, we’re successful, pretty much 100% of the time if it’s a good product or service that people want.

Mario Fachini [18:46]
So tell me a little bit more about that. And how do you qualify someone to say they’re a good fit, we’re gonna keep that 100% success rate, and there’s no confusion over even 5% they may or may not be a good fit down the road, but let’s give them a shot.

Erik Huberman [19:02]
We always test accessibility as in our mission, we’re going to be accessible. So if they want to give it a shot, we’re going to be transparent like, hey, here’s what we know, here’s what we’re going to test. But we’re gonna make the decision like we never wanted to be the gatekeeper. I think the agencies that are like we’re really picky with who we work with are frankly, full of shit. Like, you show them any amount of money, you show them the right amount of money, any agency is going to take the business. So when people try to say that I think it’s bullshit, and I think we’d rather be like the opposite, just open. Like, we’re not here to be the gatekeepers and dictators of who has a good service or not. And I’ve been shocked and surprised many times both ways where there’s no way that’s not going to work, and it doesn’t, and then there’s no way that can work. And I’m like, oh, shit, there’s a huge market, apparently, you know. And so I’ve been surprised so many times that like, I’m not going to make that call up front. We’re just going to test it and see what happens.

Mario Fachini [19:51]
Okay, that’s a great approach because I’ve done it when I’m helping my clients with book publishing. Hey, what do you think of this couple for design, no idea. Let’s ask.

Erik Huberman [20:03]
Yeah, exactly.

Mario Fachini [20:04]
I don’t have a crystal ball I have set, you know, I have guidelines, it’s like, don’t use sarafan. because no one’s gonna read it and curse that 12 points.

Erik Huberman [20:13]
There’s best practices exactly. Best practices on the nuance for sure. Like, someone shows me their website, I can probably point out a few flaws. But someone shows me a product. And I’m trying to give my opinion without knowing, like, one of one of my favorite clients years ago, we successfully launched a vitamin that helps women produce breast milk. And it was like a five hour energy shot. It was marketed by T and Tamara, that Sister Sister, and I was like, I did not expect that that was going to be a successful launch. But they ended up having other problems with recalls, and, you know, product problems, but it did sell well through Facebook ads. So we’re convincing pregnant women. And recently, women, that recent newborns to take this five hour energy shot from Sister Sister to help them produce breast milk. I was surprised, but it worked really well. I wouldn’t have liked it if I was sitting in a room and had to peg that one I wanted.

Mario Fachini [21:05]
That’s the importance of testing.

Erik Huberman [21:07]
Yep.

Mario Fachini [21:09]
What percentage of your clients do you run paid advertising for? Is it always Facebook?

Erik Huberman [21:18]
It’s not always Facebook, I’d say I mean, I don’t know the actual number. So I don’t really want to quote it’s definitely over half. But it could be anywhere between 50 and 80%. I actually don’t have the exact number.

Mario Fachini [21:29]
Oh, that’s fine. But it’s not 100%. It depends on the client.

Erik Huberman [21:32]
A lot of companies come to us for just branding, work websites, overall marketing, strategy, lifecycle marketing, all these other things that we do content creation, okay. But yeah, and we do a lot on Facebook. And while on Google, both are pretty split, and then we run podcasts, ads, TV, radio, billboards, we have an Amazon team, we have a really solid affiliate marketing team. So it’s actually a little more diversified than that.

Mario Fachini [21:58]
How many businesses do you think should be doing paid ads? Not necessarily your clientele, but do you think all businesses should be doing them or who would benefit the most?

Erik Huberman [22:08]
Some extent? I mean, I don’t want to say all cuz I’m sure there’s some business out there that doesn’t mean shouldn’t advertise. I don’t know what that looks like. But I think, you know, I just believe like, there’s all these. I mean, Tesla doesn’t advertise, as an example, they market they don’t advertise. Can they get away with that? Yeah. Could they maybe sell a few more Tesla’s if they did some ad work? Yeah. So do I think that it depends. You can be patient and save money. But I’d rather pay for a little growth and find a way that you can profitably advertise. And I think that just about any business can benefit from that.

Mario Fachini [22:41]
All right. But I appreciate you sharing the insights and the details and everything. Why don’t we kick it back and tell me the behind the scenes story of how you got started with this? Because it’s impressive, congrats on your success. I know, it’s only been six years now.

Erik Huberman [22:58]
Almost seven. Will be seven in January.

Mario Fachini [23:00]
Okay. So almost seven years now. And you started in 2014. How did you get into it? Because you’re one of the ultra successful companies that’s been growing. And you haven’t been doing it 20, 30 years. How did you do it in such a short time? And what were you doing that launched you into it beforehand?

Erik Huberman [23:22]
Yeah. I just had this conversation with one of our employees earlier, but it’s definitely a lot more luck than anything. I mean, that and that to be honest. So I graduated college 2008 became a commercial real estate agent and the entire banking industry collapsed a week later. So my first year out of college, I mean, $350 was always a little bit of a video game nerd and computer nerds. So it’s like, I’m gonna start working on an online business because real estate is making nothing. We launched an online music company and had a friend’s dad that I played music with since I was four years old. So I like the drummer and my band’s Dad. I knew nothing about it other than we grew up in a small town, so he had a cool avocado orchard. But having property in my hometown meant nothing. It was like wealth, it wasn’t expensive real estate. So it turns out the guy was a very successful entrepreneur and was co-founder of paper view on the board of men’s wearhouse and had a company with Deepak Chopra. And he came to me and said, I want to partner with you to build this online company, and helped raise a million dollars for it in 2009 and launched me into digital and e commerce, built this online business coaching from musician platform for two years, got to profitability, hired a CEO to take it over and then consecutively built and sold to different fashion e commerce subscription companies. So here I am. I’m 26 years old. It’s that time in 2013. I’ve built and sold two e-commerce companies and all of a sudden, it was a year after Dollar Shave Club launched. I had actually worked in the incubator as Dollar Shave Club launched in my work advice for them advice for a bunch of brands. So here I was, again, a 26 year old, with a great brand, knowing how to build e commerce companies when everyone was trying to figure it out. So I started getting job offers everywhere. And I said, no, I don’t want to work for someone else. But I’ll advise or consult. So I started advising and consulting and spent about six months doing that, and six months into it, I’m making 350 grand a year as a 26 year old and working part time. And so I was like, well, you know, and this is a lot longer story, but realized, basically, what created the mission of our company, like, it was really hard for me to find agencies to help my clients to find people to help them hire, I tried to help them hire in house that didn’t make sense, was always just cluster to get the marketing help. So I just hired my own as I called it SWAT team, of all these experts, I got Facebook marketing, email marketer, web designer, you know, etc. and went back to them and said, everything’s our cart month, a month cheaper than hiring in house, but I’ll just spin up the team, you need these? Are people already working with me as an advisor? It’s right, great. Do it. So literally overnight. So I started in January of 14. And by the end of the month, literally, we doubled our revenue. And I was now making 60 grand a month. And I had seven employees. And it penciled I got those employees, frankly, to join for cheap with upside. And we started to build the company, and then it just organically grew from there. We still haven’t raised any money or have any debt. We’ve just organically grown it over time. On that model.

Mario Fachini [26:23]
Wow, congrats. That’s awesome. That’s very inspiring.

Erik Huberman [26:26]
Thank you. No, it’s been so because I say lucky is I should be a commercial real estate agent right now, maybe a couple income properties. And I still haven’t invested in real estate. But I made fun of marketing majors in college. And what happened was through building my own companies, I realized marketing was the hardest part, it’s easy to figure out how to manufacture t-shirts, it was easy to figure out how to manufacture activewear, it was easy to figure out how to ship it like logistics operations. They’re all important. But I found that the place where people have the most challenge is sales and marketing, because it’s more proactive than reactive, where it’s not solving problems. It’s literally trying to always figure out what’s the next best thing you can do. The opportunity cost is infinite. If you do something, you can always do better, you can always make more money there. And so I was just more compelled about outside of the business and focused on it. And you know, 12 years later, I’ve been doing a lot of it.

Mario Fachini [27:18]
So if I heard you correctly, your backgrounds are more in music and commercial real estate, you don’t even have a background in marketing. You just saw the need and filled it.

Erik Huberman [27:26]
Yeah, I’d say the only thing I have is I sold knives door to door when I was 19. And like broke every record. So it turned out I had a natural knack for sales. And so I understand kind of psychology, sociology and how people react to different messaging just inherently

Mario Fachini [27:40]
You got common sense.

Erik Huberman [27:41]
Yeah, in some senses, yes.

Mario Fachini [27:45]
And I also hear that you surround yourself with a team of great people that, you know, you’re not trying to be the expert, in the end all be all to everyone, you just say, hey, I have the people though.

Erik Huberman [27:56]
Yeah. And at this point, especially I’d really try to keep my finger on the pulse of like marketing strategy, then what’s working and not from like, sort of the general level, and then grab experts to figure out the detail level, like I know, tik tok from a general marketing thesis is going to be a great advertising channel as they build it out. But I am going to have my people go research and partner and figure out how to leverage that platform, I just assumed the platform is going to be powerful.

Mario Fachini [28:23]
That’s awesome. There’s so many people that, you know, marketing is so broad. And everyone talks about the leads and the funnels. And it’s important, but I love getting this information, because this is what people are missing. Because not everyone builds a 6, 7, 8 figure company. And it sure as heck, I don’t think they’ve done it in five plus because it’s not like you only got successful at this point this year. I mean, you were well into it. And now you want awards, 30 under 30. And all of that, which was like you said, four years after you started. But it’s just like you focus on the sales and helping people and that sounds like that’s it.

Erik Huberman [29:03]
Yeah, I mean, the biggest driver of success, I think, has been just doing the right thing for the right reasons. And like really, just really trying to be the best at what we do for our people, for our clients like giving a shit. And also we’ve always been long term focused on this. We’ve never been rushing for an exit. Like at some point, if we sell the company we sell the company, but I doubt anyone’s ever gonna offer me what I want for it because I like working so it’s really hard. Like, I’m not the burnout kind of guy. I’ll go take a vacation, I’ve traveled a ton and had plenty of vacations running this company and like the entrepreneur that just like grinds and grinds and grinds for some finish line. I think most of those people never succeed. So my partner and I agreed a year into business. After turning down a pretty decent offer to sell as you know, they just wanted to basically aqua hire us and I was like, we should stick with this. But we got to make it sustainable. Let’s make it a marathon, not a sprint. And so what did that look like and this is now almost six years ago. He wanted to play golf every other Wednesday morning and I wanted to go on two or three epic trip somewhere in the world a year. And he’s now got two kids and life’s changed. So there’s some other priorities. But we just always believed and worked life harmony, finding ways that it all works together. And so I’ve been able to fill mine, he’s a scratch golfer, and I’ve seen, like 36 countries, I think I’m better than 35, something like that. So we’ve been able to do that. So there’s never been a rush to, like, get out. Because I like working when I have nothing else to do. And then if I want to go do something, I could do it. And we treat our people the same way.

Mario Fachini [30:31]
That’s fantastic. I can relate to that, because I always loved helping people start my first company at 12. But I never wanted to work 24 hours a day. And, you know, it’s why I film back to back for the show. And I’m not killing myself to do it. But I was thinking the same thing, long term, 10 years down the line, like what can I do to sustain and grow and have fun in it? If I’m not having fun, no matter if it’s business, the show, whatever. Why would you do it?

Erik Huberman [30:58]
That’s such a good point. Because I think it’s important to understand that like, there’s only 24 hours in a day. So once you work 24 hours, but let’s just assume you don’t need sleep for whatever that reason that is there’s no progress, if that’s how you measure your productivity is how many hours you put in, you cap out. And that means zero scalability, non incremental zero. So you have to figure out how to leverage your time properly. So that you can get a ton out of eight hours, because what I like to do is, let’s figure out how to really delegate building scalable, etc, work 8, 10 hours a day. And then when I do put in 16, 17, 20 hours happens regularly to it’s hyper productive, because it’s not just me grinding and hustling for the sake of it, it’s because I’ve read everything off my plate, and I’ve got something super compelling that I’m going to get done. And so that’s more sustainable when I’m doing those kind of hour long hour days, which again, still happen regularly. It’s usually fun, because I’m doing it for a reason. Like I’ve offloaded all this bullshit day to day stuff, it’s usually to buy an agency or to close a deal, or sell one of the venture portfolio companies we have like, it’s usually something very compelling. And I’m putting in that kind of time and not just to run my business. Because if you’re running your business by working 18 hours a day, I did that with my second e commerce company. That was why we sold it, it was unsustainable. And we didn’t build a model that I could hire people at that point. So I had to either raise money or sell, because I couldn’t get over the hump of getting myself on the business instead of in the business. And so I was literally shipping t-shirts, you know, five hours a day, and doing the marketing and then doing the procurement. And it just became unsustainable and there was nowhere to go from there. I couldn’t add more hours in the day,

Mario Fachini [32:41]
You’re sharing some great expert authority insights, because I’ve been there too. And that’s why I stopped with the agency and transitioned because I had 38 simultaneous clients. And I was just like, and I had a team. It wasn’t just me doing all of it. But I was like, this is just nuts. It’s just how it was going. And I was like, this isn’t me. We’re doing great. Everyone was happy. But I was just like, do I see myself doing this the next 10 years? And the answer was no.

Erik Huberman [33:08]
Yeah, really cool note on that there’s a guy named Robert Glaser that runs an agency called acceleration partners, great guy, and he pays his employees, I forgot what it is. But it’s some amount of money to go on a one week vacation a year and not touch their email or cell phone. He’s like you can’t be in touch at all you got to check out for the week. And you get any gates that give us a bonus when they do. The reason is it forces them to then figure out processes and delegation so that there isn’t a key point of failure. And as a CEO or a founder, you’d have to do the same thing, go take two weeks off and go good luck, because it forces you ahead of time to make sure everything’s buttoned up so that you can leave. And then when you’re gone, like a great example was my honeymoon, I want to wait for 10 days or two weeks, I think it was but for those two weeks, and there was one thing that I had to deal with, we had a problem where our payroll company double withdrew from our account which our payroll is by far our biggest expense. And so we kind of had to go deal with our bank account and realized like I still as the CEO was the only one with access to managing the bank account. That point my CEO and my business partner got access to it like you no longer have to be careful with the money side of it. But there’s a lot of things that you shouldn’t be a key point of failure in anything and no one should in your business. That is what creates scalability.

Mario Fachini [34:25]
That’s huge. That’s a great expert 30 insights. Well, I appreciate everything you’re sharing, and I know we could go for a long time. I have one more question before we thank our sponsor. This is the Wheel of Whatever. It’s a little bit of a fun thing I even interjected in the show.

Erik Huberman [34:41]
I like it.

Mario Fachini [34:43]
Matches the branding too. You see that when I was there?

Erik Huberman [34:46]
Yeah, no, I definitely see that.

Mario Fachini [34:48]
Look at that question. Yours is who is a client you’d love to work with that you haven’t yet. Hmm. You got a lot of good ones. I was checking them all out

Erik Huberman [34:57]
A lot of fun ones a while we’ve checked a lot of the boxes, I’ve reached out to and they’re just sold out. So like, it’s hard to sell them on, they should get marketing help from super 73, the electric bicycles that are advertising anywhere everywhere. Those are really cool. They’re like they look like old cafe racer motorcycles, but they’re electric bicycles. I think those are cool. So we’ve been reaching out to them, trying to think if there’s another brand that we’ve been talking about a few recently that I can’t share that is awesome. Like, honestly, we’re in talks with a few brands that would be just super fun to work with. Gibson, I talked to them today. I will name them because we’re not under anything there yet. But when I met the CEO, I reached out to him. I’ve talked to some of their team. We have a 12 foot Gibson Guitar in our office. And there’s one sitting behind me too. Not a 12 foot normal one. So I’d love to work with them just because I’ve been like when I was 16 I saved up and bought myself my first Gibson Guitar and it was like it’s such a moment for me. I still have that guitar. Gibson SG and so that would just be fun for a personal level.

Mario Fachini [36:05]
I can appreciate that I started when I was in band choir drama marched alto sax play pianos still play alto and tenor. So I definitely like the music side of stuff, too.

Erik Huberman [36:16]
Yep. I just started trying to play sax during quarantine.

Mario Fachini [36:22]
It’s a fun one. All right, we’re gonna thank our sponsor, and we’re gonna come back with the Imperfect Action Round.

Sponsor – Free Business Book Publishing Course [36:28]
You’ve heard me say every business needs a book, including yours, and it’s true. And that’s why you should visit freebusinessbookpublishingcourse.com today to learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. But you know what? Don’t take my word for it. Take it from a few of my authors like Lori “I went from having an idea and the possibility to actually getting my book published.” Or Katherine, “Thank you for making my mom number one bestselling author.” Or Maryalice, “What he got done for me in three days regarding my book launch, unimaginable.” Jon Cody, “I’ve worked with Mario over the phone and online and he’s been very helpful in getting me where I needed to go with promoting my books.” Rosio, “There’s no way in the world I would have been able to do this with somebody else. Again, I’ve attempted it in the past, it didn’t serve me. As a matter of fact, I ended up more frustrated than anything. So this has been a very seamless process.” Adele, “If you’re looking for an amazing business coach, I highly recommend Mario Fachini.” Or Bill Benner, “I can’t make a higher recommendation than to work with Mario Fachini. He has been great for me. And right now, I won’t work with anybody else except for Mario.” Hey, their words, not mine. Visit FreeBusinessBookPublishingCourse.com to get started now and I look forward to hearing your transformation as the next video success story. Once again, that’s FreeBusinessBookPublishingCourse.com.

Mario Fachini [37:59]
And we are back with the Imperfect Action Round. Eric, are you ready to take imperfect action?

Erik Huberman [38:05]
Do it.

Mario Fachini [38:05]
60 second or less response answers rapid fire questions. First one is what is the fastest path to the profits?

Erik Huberman [38:15]
I would say being the best salesperson,

Mario Fachini [38:19]
Okay.

Erik Huberman [38:20]
It is going to be an honor if you got to be able to sell

Mario Fachini [38:23]
Absolutely 100% I’m loving this, we should do two or three parts. I know you just have a wealth of knowledge and you share a lot of stuff people don’t realize. Two, what is the biggest problem you see your prospects make and the fastest way for them to fix it.

Erik Huberman [38:40]
Yeah, not understanding the purchase cycle or consideration period meaning that from the time someone sees an ad to the time someone actually buys something, there’s a period there. So to actually double down on nurturing email marketing, SMS content, things that bring people along your funnel from when they become aware of for you to actually purchasing really focusing on that and also measuring your advertising properly, knowing that it could be three weeks, five weeks, two months, three months before someone buys from when they see an ad so when you’re measuring the efficacy of your advertising, understanding that as a timeline, they’re absolutely nailing it.

Mario Fachini [39:16]
Number three, what is the best way to maximize customer lifetime value?

Erik Huberman [39:22]
Number one good product or service they’re gonna want to buy more from you. The other mistake I see people make is actually having stuff that people can buy more of people a lot of times just don’t merchandise properly and don’t give people the options to go buy other things from you when they like you. It is that simple. And then stay in touch by giving them value above and beyond a purchase decision. Again, great content can do that. So you get people to engage Red Bulls notoriously the best at this, like all their content has nothing to do with selling their product but they sell like billions of dollars in product because they create great content.

Mario Fachini [39:55]
Great value, great value. What books would you recommend the expert authority world that have impacted your life?

Erik Huberman [40:02]
And my number one favorite would be Appetite For Self Destruction by Steve Knopper, a Rolling Stones author, I need to find that guy. At some point I read that book when I was 22, just out of college at the market falling apart was getting into music. And it’s about the music industry’s failure to adapt to change and innovation over and over and over again and miss out on opportunities where you know whether it was like Napster is a great example and iTunes like, why does Apple own iTunes and not Universal Music or a music company? Like it’s those kinds of things that they’ve always resisted, and it’s always shot them in the foot Spotify. Now they’re all arguing about why Spotify doesn’t pay them enough. It’s like, well, why didn’t you create Spotify. So this was pre Spotify and pre iTunes, or I think iTunes was out when that book came out. But it’s more like their habit of this the past 100 years. And so really love that book, because it’s a great testament to any industry and making sure to disrupt yourself and keep innovating.

Mario Fachini [40:57]
I’ve not heard of that one. And it’s not been a recommendation. So thank you for that. It sounds very intriguing. And it’s kind of funny, because everyone’s always mad after the fact. But it’s like, Hey, you want to put up the risk and the money? That’s welcome to entrepreneurship. So don’t be upset when we get the rewards. But there’s also been probably a lot of failures you didn’t see. Yep. All right. Where would you like people to learn more?

Erik Huberman [41:22]
Yeah, I mean, any social media platform at or slash, Eric Huberman. I’ve got my podcast Hawke Talk on all the major platforms. So that’s easy and have a look out for our book and the next ,hopefully, year so the hawk method.

Mario Fachini [41:36]
Excellent. Well, thank you so much, Eric. It’s been a pleasure. And I appreciate you for sharing.

Erik Huberman [41:41]
Yeah, thank you for having me.

Mario Fachini [41:42]
All right, Expert Authority World. We have another great episode here today. I’ll see you tomorrow. Have a great day. God bless.

Sponsor – Free Business Book Publishing Course [41:50]
You’re already an expert. But have you transformed your expertise into a tangible asset that will generate unqualified leads while increasing profit for you 24 Seven? And if so, how well are you promoting it? With the expert authority effect publishing method it’s easier and faster than ever. Visit freebusinessbookpublishingcourse.com today to learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. Visit freebusinessbookpublishingcourse.com to get started now, once again, that’s freebusinessbookpublishingcourse.com.

www.EAInterviews.com [42:23]
Hey, thanks for listening to today’s episode. I hope you got a lot out of it. I know I sure did. If you haven’t done so already, I invite you to subscribe to the show. And also be sure to check out EAInterviews.com for complete show notes, the full interview video experience links to the resources we mentioned in more. Have a blessed day and I’ll see you tomorrow.