THREE BIG LIES: The Real Truth About Renting Email Lists to Generate Targeted Leads and Sales with Doug Morneau on Episode #0162

Intro [0:00]

EA Interviews Episode 162. Inspiration, transformation, success stories, and the Imperfect Action Round seven days a week. Join Mario Fachini for today’s Expert Authority Effect Interview. 

Mario Fachini [0:14]

We are in for a treat today, everyone. I don’t know about you, but I’m always looking for ways to generate leads for my business, get more high quality leads. And there’s so many ways to do this. Have you ever considered doing it with email? Have you considered it with Facebook? I’m excited to have Doug Morneau here, who is an author, speaker, and host of Real Marketing Real Fast podcast. aAd he’s going to be sharing with us ways we can get more leads for our business. And I’m going to bring him up right after we thank our sponsor. 

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Mario Fachini [1:02]

Here he is, ladies and gentlemen, Doug Morneau. Doug, how are you feeling today? 

Doug Morneau [1:07]

I’m feeling good. Thanks, Mario. 

Mario Fachini [1:09]

I’m excited for you to share about leads and marketing because so many people – I can’t think of a single business right now that couldn’t benefit from more leads and higher quality leads. Would you agree? 

Doug Morneau [1:22]

Yeah. I totally agree. I mean, I think sales and marketing obviously is super important to the company. But making sure that you’ve got good quality, qualified leads, is kind of the lifeline of the business. 

Mario Fachini [1:33]

Out of all the aspects of business, what made you want to go down this path? 

Doug Morneau [1:40]

To be honest, it wasn’t something I had entirely planned. I mean, my goal really was to be an entrepreneur. I’d seen my grandfather be quite successful what he had done. My dad was not in the – you know, he wasn’t self-employed. He worked for the city. And I just had a desire to do this. So I mean, I’ve transitioned my business and I’ve changed a bit with the times. I really started with general marketing and direct mail. And then as the digital age came in – I mean, you can see I’ve got gray hair, so yes, direct mail. And then as the digital moved along, I just moved with it. And try to be plugged in and try to be six months to a year ahead of the marketplace testing stuff. 

Mario Fachini [2:16]

Well, I appreciate the jokes you’re making. But I actually want to talk about the direct mails because so few people – let me not pigeonhole that. But I would say there’s a lot more people now – I mean, I was saying this ten years ago when we were doing direct mail. But so many people don’t want to try it or do it. And it’s such a good thing. What would you say the pros of direct mail are versus the cons of not doing it? 

Doug Morneau [2:45]

Well, there’s less competition. So if you’re thinking of your advertising message, all you need to do is log on to any of your favorite social media platform. And you’ll get all the regular traffic, if you want to call it that, from your friends and the people that you’re following. But then you’re also getting bombarded with advertising. And then that just think for a minute when you go to your mailbox, how many pieces of – now, I’m talking about direct mail. I’m specifically talking about addressed direct mail. And typically what we do is first class. So how many first class letters do you get that have a stamp and have your name on the front? I can’t speak for you. But for me, not very many. 

Mario Fachini [3:20]

Well, I’d have to agree. It’s far and few between. And I know the shift around the 2000s was everyone was transitioning into direct mail. And they’re like, “Oh, we can do email. It’s so cheap. It’s so inexpensive.” But now everyone’s doing it and the marketplace is crowded. Then it was Facebook, LinkedIn. And they all still have their place and everything, but I think people forget there are billion dollar companies that were built just a few years before the internet. How did they do it is the question I asked myself. 

Doug Morneau [3:51]

Yeah. And we would often use digital to raise capital or to generate sales for clients where direct mail is the ultimate goal. So we might, want to do a direct mail piece, like a 15 or 16, page magalog, that we’ve mailed out across the US, but do a million pieces of direct mail. So at $1 and a quarter a piece, that’s a big budget. So what we do is we do all our testing on digital. Then we do all our big sales would start with email. And then we would take the profits from the email and roll it into direct mail to take it to the next level. 

Mario Fachini [4:24]

You just shared about three or four good Experts Authority insights that I could catch there. And you were saying test it first with digital before you roll it out with physical. 

Doug Morneau [4:35]

Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I don’t want to sound like an ancient dinosaur. But before we had digital, I would run test ads in the classifieds and run them to a phone and just count how many calls came in to test headlines for direct mail. 

Mario Fachini [4:50]

That’s a good way to do it. Would you go to a local market before you roll it out? regional or national? 

Doug Morneau [4:56]

Yeah. Absolutely. And then now, obviously, we’ve got the ability with Facebook and Google to test headlines as well. And you know, even in the email space now, I mean, I’m using artificial intelligence to test subject line. So I sent – my daily email went out today. And I think there was like 850,000 emails that my headline was compared against. And that gave me a score of opens, deliveries, and pixel. So there’s a lot of technology that you can use today digitally that I think you can transfer into direct mail or other mediums or even writing ad copy. 

Mario Fachini [5:32]

So it sounds like the best way to do this is really take the best of both worlds and leverage them. 

Doug Morneau [5:38]

Yeah. And what I found really – and this is just my my personal opinion – is that I haven’t discovered the Holy Grail. There is no one way is the best for everybody. It depends on your situation, your market, who your target customer is. But what I have found is that when you couple several medias together, you have this multiplier effect where one plus one equals five, or six, or seven, instead of one plus when equals two. We would run email, run paid search, run Facebook ads, run video ads, do direct mail, do them all at the same time. We get a way bigger lift than taking any one of those items and putting 100 percent of our budget into one channel. 

Mario Fachini [6:20]

Do you find that there’s a better platform to test the ads with Facebook versus LinkedIn versus Google versus YouTube ads when you’re talking on the strictly digital side? 

Doug Morneau [6:32]

This is going to sound a bit weird. But again, it’s kind of the testing. Know who your audience is. And it really depends where your audience is. So you know, I’m a big Twitter fan. But if my audience isn’t on Twitter, then there’s no sense me testing my offer there. I mean, one of the advantages of Twitter is that’s where the media are. So if you want media coverage and you want to know where the reporters are, go there. But if that’s not your target audience, find out where your audience is, who your avatar is, what they do in the morning. You know, when they get up in the morning, have a cup of coffee and a bagel. You know, do they listen to a podcast? Or are they listening to your podcast? They listen to the radio. What websites do they go to? And if you get a really clear picture of what your potential customer does for the entire day from the time they wake up until they go to bed, then it’s very easy to select the media that you should be testing. 

Mario Fachini [7:19]

Do you find that when you’re talking to your clients, is it a hard sell that talk to them about direct mail? Because I know there’s people listening that are going – maybe they’ve never tried direct mail, maybe they’ve tried it with no success. And of course, there’s a lot of people who have had success with it. Do you find it to be a hard sell? Or do you just explain the process and break it down for them? 

Doug Morneau [7:44]

For some of them it’s definitely a hard sell. And some of them it’s a hard no. But that’s no different than if you think back a few months ago, there were companies that said there’s no way I’m going to have an e commerce store. Guess what? Times changed. And so with direct mail, the other thing you need to remember is that, often in the marketing world – and I’ve noticed the same around other industries – we say, “Oh, this is dead.” And what we’re saying is because it’s old, it doesn’t work. And that’s not necessarily true. Just because something is shiny and new. My clients aren’t on TikTok. TikTok is new. But if I market my business there, my clients aren’t there. So technology comes along and makes the old media better. So with direct mail now, you’ve got the ability to put a piece of tracking code on your website or my website. And when somebody visits your website, it can identify who that person is. And it can automatically send off a piece of direct mail based on the parameter. So if they spent a minute on your About Us page, it will put a postcard in the mail the next day, with no intervention, without them having to fill out a form. So direct mail has evolved, if you look at it that way. 

Mario Fachini [8:53]

That’s awesome. I did not know that aspect of it. One of my favorite things to do with it is, take a copy of my book and drop that in the mail to someone. I mean, that’s good direct mail. Obviously, you’re not going to do that 2 million homes just for the first reason. But when you can automatically trigger that. Let’s talk about the distribution. Because there’s a lot of people who even asked me as far as books go when I’m publishing for them, they go, “Well, who’s going to distribute these? Who’s going to print them?” And they don’t realize you can print on demand or you can – that’s really cool. You got my wheels spinning about that. Or they click on your website and it will trigger a postcard. So how much of this process can you offload where it’s like, “Hey, let’s just put it in place.” And you really don’t need to maintain it anymore. 

Doug Morneau [9:46]

Oh, that process I’m talking about is a 100 percent outsource. So really, you design what you want to be mailed out, you set the criteria, you install the tracking pixel, you decide what you want to spend on a budget. So let’s say for argument’s sake, I want to spend USD1,000 a month on this. You set your budget. And it will send out the direct mail until you’ve reached your budget. So it’s almost like a pay per click. But it transfers to direct mail. So there’s lots of that technology that you outsource. So yeah, those postcards don’t reside in your office, my office. They sit in a mailing house someplace. And they track, they get the download, they send that out. You just get the reporting. 

Mario Fachini [10:27]

See, and that’s what I find exciting because I love systems in the organization. And just systematizing things for increased profit. And there’s a lot of cool stuff you can do. But so many people come up with these ideas, we can do this, that, the other thing. And it’s like, yes, it can work. Yes, it might work or will work. But you’re also creating this 10X multiplier of work. And if you don’t have that time freedom, in my opinion, it’s like you’re going to be increasing not only the profit, but you’re increasing the time. So what I love about what you’re sharing is it’s not. You still have that time freedom. What are some other advantages that you found with direct mail? 

Doug Morneau [11:11]

Well, like I said, again, it’s very sophisticated. Now, you can create custom direct mail pieces. So you know the envelope – my favorite way to send direct mail, honestly, is a handwritten envelope with a real stamp. And a return address with no company name. I call it the sneak up approach. And if if I’m going to – people go, “Well, my clients are CEOs of these big companies.” Like, “Okay. I’ve done direct mail to those guys before as well.” So the envelope comes to them in a handwritten in a lady’s handwriting. It smells a little bit like perfume and says private. What I can guarantee you is the mailroom won’t sort it out. His secretary won’t open it. It will show up on his desk. Now, you can’t do that at scale. But if you’re going to be super fine, targeted and get to people. And then when they open the envelope, instead of having a brochure in there, it’s  your picture, attention getting headline. And then I follow a very basic copywriting rule, which is problem-agitate-solve. The problem you have, if you don’t address the problem, it’s going to get worse. Here’s the solution. And then we will mail to that individual three to four times. 

Mario Fachini 12:1

Why not five or six? 

Doug Morneau [12:17]

I just haven’t tested that far. To be honest, the biggest payoff so far has come with letter three. So sometimes it takes a bit of discussion with the client to convince them, “Hey, look. Hang in there.” “Well, I didn’t get all my money back in letter one.” “That’s right. You’re going to get the biggest payoff.” So my experience has been I get about 75 percent of my payoff on the third letter. Because people are busy. No different than when you open your inbox or somebody sends you a message on Facebook, you’re busy you put it aside. But if you’re a welcome guest and not a pest, if you’re trying to solve a problem they have, they probably just file that aside and they’re going to look at it later. Well, sometimes later never comes because they get distracted. So by sending another one and another one another one, eventually they go, “Okay. Fine. I got to deal with this. This guy is right, my problem is getting way worse. I got to resolve – fill in the blank. I need more leads. I need the staff. I need whatever.” So I haven’t tried five or six to answer your question. 

Mario Fachini [13:12]

And that just answered the other side of the coin, why not one or two? Because your biggest payoff is on three?

Doug Morneau [13:21]

Yeah. It’s the magic in the follow up, right? And it takes time to build a relationship. So if you can move digitally and direct mail at the same time, I mean, if you look at the ability to, – you know what I do in the email world is I partner with large publishing companies that typically have a digital and a print publication. And that gives me access to phone numbers. That gives me access to the direct mail. And that gives me access to their email list. Because all of these guys have subscribers that subscribe to their email list. So I can now get the publisher to send out your advertising message saying, “Hey, Fast Company subscribers, listen to Mario’s podcast. This guy is really cool,” or whatever the messaging is. If I want, I’ve got the ability to mail them and also to phone them. So if you’re going to take seven to nine times to connect with somebody before they buy from you, I want to shorten up that timeframe as quickly as possible. 

Mario Fachini [14:16]

Yeah. And that’s the thing, if you know it’s going to take seven, nine, or 13, or 21, or whatever the case is, maybe that’s where you supplement some of the direct mail with the online and the email. Because there is a point in any sales cycle where you want to keep it affordable and profitable. But there’s no point in doing 14 messages if it’s going to take 15 or 16. 

Doug Morneau [14:41]

Yep. And there’s no sense doing 14 or 15, if you can get it done in 10. So you’re right, it’s really about testing. And so to your point about it takes up lots of time, you need to set aside some of your budget for testing. So I’m not suggesting that people go, “Hey. Oh, great. Now I got to go ask my VP of Marketing for new budget.” What I typically with my clients, I’d say, “Okay. Let’s carve off a piece of your budget 5 percent, 8 percent, 10 percent, whatever the number is. Then let’s use that just for testing. So we’ve got our baseline and you’re happy with the results you’re getting. But what if we could increase that, increase the conversion by 1 percent, or 2 percent,, or 3 percent. And if you can make those small, little adjustments, and that becomes the new norm. So I’m always, always recommending test, test, test. 

Mario Fachini [15:28]

Here’s the million dollar question, How long? Are we testing it for a week, two weeks, 30 days, 45, 60, 90? 

Doug Morneau [15:37]

Well, I’ve got the half million dollar answer to a million dollar question. And that is, it depends on the volume. You’ve got to have enough data to make it statistically valid. So if you’re saying, “Hey, I like the idea of running your email campaign and direct mail. I want to talk to 1,000 people.” I’m going to tell you that’s not enough. So if I tell you that you should probably talk to 50,000 people, the question then becomes or over what period of time? So if you can do that in the course of 30 days, then that will give you enough data. Or you could do it over six months. But again, it’s going to take you six months to achieve it. So it really comes down to how quickly do you want to get the answer to your question. 

Mario Fachini [16:16]

And the reason I wanted to ask that is because I know one of the frequent ones I get as far as Facebook ads are concerned, a lot of people don’t realize you need to be willing to test for 30 to 60 days, let’s say, with Facebook ads to figure out what’s working before you scale it up. And most people, that may be their only budget or that might be half a day’s budget, depending on who you’re talking to. But the test, test, test phase, everyone thinks you can just jump right in. Either pour a whole lot of money at it or a whole whole little bit at it. And magically it’s going to work. And it’s like, “Nothing works that way.” I mean, you’re a cool and everything person but there isn’t anyone pulling it off in 24 hours. Like, try riding a bike like that. Why am I not a NASCAR driver? Because you’ve been at this about two hours. 

Doug Morneau [17:08]

Yeah, you’re right. And people don’t want to hear that. What they want to hear is, “Hey, you’re the marketing guy. So I just expect you to write out a prescription and solve my problem in a day.” It’s like, “Well, you’ve had this problem for longer than a day. We need to investigate, look at what you’re doing, try and test some new – maybe some new tactics. Or maybe it’s just changing your copy, whatever it is.” There’s a lot of moving pieces. And nobody’s got it all figured out. And the people that are really seriously crushing it that are doing this seven, eight figure, nine figure businesses, they spent a lot of money with people testing copy, content, images, colors all the time. 

Mario Fachini [17:46]

Well, I want to dive into what you alluded to earlier – you’re sharing a lot of Expert Authority insights – but the one you mentioned, problem-agitate-solve. Why do you use that formula? 

Doug Morneau [18:01]

Because it’s a formula that I like. And it’s gotten good results for me. So I’ve used that across a variety of different industries and it works. So I learned it from a copywriter who passed away this year, Dan Kennedy. And what he talked about is imagine your prospects sitting in their lazy chair, they’re sitting down, they’re having a beer, they’re watching the football game, and it’s snowing outside, there’s a foot of snow on the ground. You know, how compelling would your message need to be to make that person shut off the game, put down their beer, put on their coat, and leave their apartment and come to your store? It have to be pretty darn compelling. And what I do know is that it’s easier to sell aspirin than vitamins. So people know that they should exercise, know they should eat well. They believe they need the supplement. But typically, they don’t make a change until something happens. For me, I nearly died from pneumonia. I was three months in bed because I was unhealthy. That was a wake up call, “Hey, I better get my life in order.” So the same thing happens when you’re trying to advertise to somebody. They’re busy. You’re an interruption to them. And so I say, problem-agitate-solve. But I like to pour salt in the wound and like to grind it in so it really hurts. So my style doesn’t fit everybody. I tell people, my goal with you is to find your ideal customer. Take a really big stick, whittle down one end so I can get a grip on it with two hands, hit your customer over the head, pick them up by their pant legs, shake them upside down until all their money comes out. Now, obviously, that’s a made up example. But I like to be fairly aggressive, because if you have a product or service that can change somebody’s life or solve a problem, you owe it to them to do your very best to help them. And helping them is to get them to pay attention and then to engage you. 

Mario Fachini [19:58]

Well, it may have been a made up example, but it still seems like a little bit of work. You got a grind down the stick. You know, they have aluminum bats, right? 

Doug Morneau [00:20:06]

Yeah, I do. 

Mario Fachini [20:07]

No, but that’s good. Because, again, with the process, so many people think they can just put one ad out one time without doing any research. Forget the testing. Who are you even talking to? And then are you taking them psychologically through the process? 

Doug Morneau [20:23]

Absolutely. And the other thing that  I didn’t talk about is that’s just testing one media. So for example, in the email or direct mail space, I may buy several direct mail lists. Or I may rent several email lists from several publishers. So once we test the copy, the content, the subject line, the landing page. Then I’m going to test the media to see which media gives me the best ROI. Which is different than Facebook or Google, because on Facebook or Google, you’re changing your ads but it’s still Facebook or Google. So a fair comparison would be, “Well, what if there was five other competitors to Facebook that had the same type of product? Or five other competitor’s search engines to Google? And so what you do, in my scenario, because there’s that many media opportunities is, once we get the message and the conversion rate, then we test all the medias to find out which one should we spend money with. 

Mario Fachini [21:16]

That is a great way to do it. Because it really is about the testing, which takes a little bit of time. But as you alluded to earlier, we can go hit up 50,000 people in 30 days or six months. It’s still the same 50,000 people. And that’s what you’re going to get your data set from. 

Doug Morneau [21:35]

Yeah. And the reason I like emails because they’re all contained. So if you compare what I do with email to Facebook or Google – now, we use Facebook and Google as well for retargeting. But I couldn’t phone you up and say, “Hey, Mario. You have Facebook agency. I want you to reach 100,000 people on Monday morning for me for my offer.” You couldn’t do it. I could go to – are you familiar with a publication called Social Media Examiner? 

Mario Fachini [22:00]

Yes. 

Doug Morneau [22:01]

Okay. So you may or may not know this, but you can actually get them to send your advertising message out to their subscribers. 

Mario Fachini [22:07]

No kidding. 

Doug Morneau [22:09]

No kidding. So you pay them and 350,000 people on Monday morning at 8:00 a.m. will receive your message all at once. So in terms of scaling from going from zero to here or testing, now you’ve got the ability to. And you can’t do that with other media. Like, I’ve run larger ad budgets on Google. We’ve had clients who are spending like $50,000 or $60,000 a day. We still can’t reach the volume that I can partnering with a well-known publisher that’s got a great relationship with their subscribers and having them introduce me. 

Mario Fachini [22:46]

I got to ask you about your success stories. bBt you are giving so much value here and I just want to say thank you because you got my wheels spinning again. I did not know that either. So I got to stay focused on the show, but you’re creating more questions here. So tell me about your success stories. Who would you say is the biggest success story you’ve had so far? 

Doug Morneau [23:13]

It was a lithium company that was raising money at the time when lithium was a very hot commodity. So it’s a publicly traded company and they were trying to raise capital. And they were very successful. I think they raised about $40 million. 

Mario Fachini [23:28]

And what did you do? What process did you take them through? 

Doug Morneau [23:33]

Pretty much what we talked about. So identified a number of publishers. We hired a copywriter. We wrote copy. We tested copy. We tested subject lines. We rented. We partnered with publishers with email lists. We sent out email. We did remarketing, retargeting on Google and Facebook.

Mario Fachini [23:50]

Wow. That’s fantastic. So it sounds like they were pretty happy with what you did for them. 

Doug Morneau [23:56]

Yeah. They were pretty happy. I mean, the biggest thing we had for testing our media, to be honest, was the 2008-2009 crash. So all my clients were venture capital guys, money guys in the market. We’re helping them raise money and the market crashed. And so I did what my approach, you know, the big stick. I hit them over the head. I said, “Hey, you should just double your budget. And I’ll go back to the suppliers and I’ll renegotiate all the prices.” So a lot of the suppliers I deal with, I’ve still kept the prices at the half price that we negotiated back 2008, 2009. And so we doubled the budget. And they went “Wow. That really worked well. What should I do?” “Double it again.” So we quadrupled our clients budgets and everybody won. The publishers won because they stayed in business. We won because we made money. Our clients won because they made money. 

Mario Fachini [24:42]

Win-win-win, that’s the way to do it. Well, I want to ask you one more thing – actually, two more things. But one of them is another question and it deals with the headline, the sub-headline. You kept saying have an attention grabbing headline. What is the format of an ad that you follow? So the process is, you have the problem, you agitate it, and then you solve it. But when you have the actual copywriting, what have you found works best as far as the format for the headline and then the rest of it? 

Doug Morneau [25:12]

Well, I’ll come back to the the test again. But what I will typically do is I’ll write out a bunch of headlines. So last night, I was getting ready to publish my newsletter. And so I use this AI software and I wrote four headlines. And the software told me that each of them were going to deliver subpar. So they were going to deliver 25 percent less results than the threshold. So I actually had to write a dozen different subject lines last night to find one that would produce it 80 percent better than threshold. So don’t think you’re going to get it right the first time. I spent a lot of time writing headlines or writing subject lines. And it’s not to be clickbait. I’m not talking about trying to trick somebody into opening something, whether it’s email, direct mail. Because if you do that, and they open it, and your message inside doesn’t match your subject line or your headline, then you’ve lied to them. And they’re going to know that right away. So it needs to match what you put inside. So again, spend some time. I would really recommend looking online for some copywriters. There’s lots of tools that give you ideas for headlines. So let me see if I have Dan Kennedy’s book here, Ultimate Sales Letter. There’s a ton of headlines in here. It will walk you through all the formulas and the formats for the headlines. And he’s got another one, The Ultimate Marketing Plan. So you notice these are my quick – they’re right beside my desk because I refer to them. So I look for people that are smarter. I would say look at your direct mail. Look what comes into your house, what intrigues you and gets you to open it and copy those. I mean, really, can we write an original headline or subject line that hasn’t been used and overused? I mean, the best headline I wrote or something I wrote last year was, “I’m sorry.” That was it for my subject line in my email. I got a ton of feedback. But when you went inside I was sorry. I had promised my subscriber list that I would mail to them once a week, and I was mailing to them once a month. So it was, “Hey, I’m sorry. My promise is this. This is what I’m going to do to rectify it.” But they opened it. So the headline and the subject line have to match the content. 

Mario Fachini [27:20]

Because you have that intrigue and it piques human curiosity. But like you’re saying, you can’t lie to them. It was legit for you. You can’t be mailing that out every week, or every day, or whatever. 

Doug Morneau [27:31]

Well, we always get those messages in our email. “Hey, you know, I’m closing my shopping cart. Last minute offer.” Like, “Please, give me a break.” I mean, the urgency stuff that you’re doing doesn’t work because you’re going to email me tomorrow. You’ve just told me you’re taking me off your list. So one guy actually said, “I’m taking you off my list.” So I sent it back and I said, “Thank you.” And guess what? The next day it’s like, “Hey, you’ve got one more chance.” Like, “seriously, dude. You have no credibility. Go away.” 

Mario Fachini [27:53]

So that’s your take on those? Because I’ve asked people about that before where it’s like, “Hey, we’re doing the list, blah, blah, blah. We’re going to take you off.” And I remember one I had just joined after a conference a couple years back. And about 30 days later, they were already purging it. I’m like, I just joined. 

Doug Morneau [28:14]

Well, there’s a difference between purging. I mean, I haven’t done what we would call a reactivation email to my list. But now, when I mail to my list, I don’t mail to anybody who hasn’t opened email in the last 60 days. 

Mario Fachini [28:26]

So you do 60 days. Okay. 

Doug Morneau [28:28]

Yeah. I do 60 days. And I encourage people to unsubscribe. And I’ll tell you why. Because if you don’t like the content that I’m sending you, unsubscribe so it doesn’t fill your email box. It saves you time. Don’t let it just sit in your inbox or move it into the junk, because it affects the email deliverability. So, Gmail is looking at how many of my subscribers have Gmail, how many people open it, how many people put it into junk without opening it, how many people move it into a folder. So they’re watching all these actions. And that affects the ability for me to get my messages delivered to other Gmail users. So it sounds weird. I did a podcast on it. You know, “Please unsubscribe from my list if you don’t like my style and my content.” And I radically changed the way I wrote my newsletter to be super blunt and really short. And I thought, “Great. If people don’t like my style, the best thing we can do is part ways. They’ll find somebody else that fits with the way that they like to work.” 

Mario Fachini [29:25]

Wow. That’s interesting. Again, thank you, personally. I didn’t know Gmail was going to that extent. I sent out an email last Christmas around how to increase your open rate. And everyone was really intrigued by it. And it was basically, purge your list and have people unsubscribe because it’s probably been a year to five since you’ve done it. But the reality is, you can double or triple your open rate just by purging the list and not keeping people on there from a decade ago. I didn’t know there’s all these other things about it. But, like, “I got 100,000 people on my list.” It’s like, “Yeah. But 0.01 are opening it.” 

Doug Morneau [30:04]

Right. 

Mario Fachini [30:05]

That’s no good. 

Doug Morneau [30:06]

And my my opening rates are pretty consistently between 40 and 50 percent. 

Mario Fachini [30:11]

Well, I got to step it up because I was excited I peaked over 20. I haven’t seen that in five years. 

Doug Morneau [30:17]

Well, here’s another super simple tip that you can do without any money at all. So most people, 75 to 80 percent of people who subscribe to your list. So someone’s listening today live and they go, “Hey, I really like what Mario was talking about.” And they head over to your website and they sign up for your email list. They expect to get a welcome message. I haven’t signed up for email lists. So full disclosure, I will. But I haven’t. So I don’t know if you send one. But most people expect them and most marketers don’t send one. And I’ll tell you why it’s important, it’s because they expect it. So if you don’t send it to them, you’ve already let them down. Secondly, it’s the number one most open email that you’re ever going to send to that person. So if you want to improve your deliverability, grow your list. Get new subscribers and send them a welcome message. You have new blood coming into your system, which is good for you as marketers or people listening. And because they open it, it’s telling the Google gods and the Yahoo’s and AOL and Roadrunners that this is good content because people are opening it and they’re engaging with it. So one of the best ways you can do or things you can do to improve your deliverability is to grow your list, send a welcome message. I normally tell people I set my expectations out. “I’m going to mail you this often. Connect with me on social.” So it’s a great place to ask them for something to take another step. Here’s a download. Connect on social. Or here’s a discount or a coupon. It works. 

Mario Fachini [31:42]

Wow. I’m going to have to go check, to be honest. 

Doug Morneau [31:46]

Well, I’ll check when the podcast is over as well. 

Mario Fachini [31:49]

Well, I appreciate everything you’re sharing. We’re going to go to the sponsor. But there’s a fun little thing I started doing and you’re going to – I like you. You’re officially going to be the first one to see it. I call this the Wheel of Whatever. All right. Now, we’re going to pretend that the questions are already on it. And I have a couple, because I’ve asked about who is someone you’d like to have dinner with? What would you do if you’re president? Do you think the moon landing was real? There’s one I think would be a good fit for you. And I’m curious what you think. How old do you think the earth is? 

Doug Morneau [32:30]

I have no idea at all. 

Mario Fachini [32:32]

You don’t? 

Doug Morneau [32:33]

I don’t. Seriously, I don’t. I think, I would guess and say that it’s millions of years old, just based on artifacts and stuff they found. But I really don’t know. 

Doug Morneau [32:43]

Okay. That’s fair. That’s all. I interjected that about 100 episodes ago just for some fun and some lightness. But we’re going to thank our sponsor and come back for the Imperfect Action Round. 

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Mario Fachini [34:05]

And we are back with the Imperfect Action Round. Doug, are you ready to take imperfect action? 

Doug Morneau [34:12]

I am. 

Mario Fachini [34:12]

First question – 60 second answers – what is the fastest path to the cash? 

Doug Morneau [34:20]

Reaching out to your existing network and asking people for feedback and help. 

Mario Fachini [34:25]

Very good. Two, what is the biggest problem you see prospects making it and the fastest way they can fix it? 

Doug Morneau [34:33]

They need to get out of their own way and they need to realize that not everything’s free. You need to invest in your business, which means your team, your advertising, your marketing. It’s just the way it works. 

Mario Fachini [34:43]

I don’t think anyone has ever said that. I love that. It’s true. That is awesome. Thank you. That’s really good. 

Doug Morneau [34:52]

You’re welcome. 

Mario Fachini [34:53]

Number three, what is the best way to maximize customer lifetime value? 

Doug Morneau [35:00]

I think you need to build a deep relationship with your customer and fully understand what they need and how you can help them in all areas. And if you can’t help them in all the areas they need help, is to introduce other people. So you become the trusted expert and the go to person. 

Mario Fachini [35:16]

Very good. You mentioned two of them earlier, but what are a couple of books that have helped your business? 

Doug Morneau [35:24]

Well, definitely Dan Kennedy’s two books, Dale Carnegie’s book, How to Win Friends and Influence People. I like Jim Collins, Good to Great Built To Last. And I like his books because he isn’t just talking about theory. He’s a scientist and the way he puts the facts together. So they’ve been very helpful. 

Mario Fachini [35:44]

Very good. Well, I appreciate everything that you’ve been sharing with us. Where would you like people to learn more? 

Doug Morneau [35:51]

Just go to my branded websites. It’s just DougMorneau, M-O-R-N-E-A-U, .com. All the details about my business are there. There’s information about my books that are there. All my podcast episodes are there I’m coming up to 180-ish episodes. So there’s lots of resources there. 

Mario Fachini [36:12]

Well, I appreciate it very much, Doug. You still got my wheels spinning. And I know Expert Authority World got a lot out of this. 

Doug Morneau [36:20]

Well, I appreciate it. Thanks so much, Mario. Thanks for inviting me on. I hope I was able to serve your audience. 

Mario Fachini [36:24]

Absolutely. Well, Expert Authority World, we have another great episode here today. I’ll see you tomorrow. Have a great day and God bless. 

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SPONSOR Acorns [36:48]

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www.EAInterviews.com [37:24]

Hey, thanks for listening to today’s episode. I hope you got a lot out of it. I know I sure did. If you haven’t done so already, I invite you to subscribe to the show. And also be sure to check out EAInterviews.com for complete show notes, the full interview video experience, links to the resources we mentioned, and more. Have a blessed day and I’ll see you tomorrow.