The Whirlpool Effect: Inspire The Flow That Boosts Company Performance with Author & CEO Claire Chandler on Episode #0247

Claire Chandler [0:00]
This is Claire Chandler with talent boost and clairechandler.net. And you are listening to EA Interviews.

Intro [0:06]
EA interviews, Episode 247, inspiration, transformation, success stories and the imperfect action round seven days a week. Join Mario Fachini for today’s expert authority effect interview.

Mario Fachini [0:20]
Have you ever wanted to scale your business? Do you want to have a great core team? Do you want to have the best people in the business but you’re not sure where to find them? Or better yet how to keep them. I’m excited to be talking about the Whirlpool effect. And that’s why I have Claire Chandler On today’s episode. We’re going to be talking about all of this and more right after we thank our sponsor.

Sponsor – Free Business Book Publishing Course [0:40]
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Mario Fachini [0:55]
Claire Chandler, everybody how are you feeling Claire?

Claire Chandler [0:58]
I am doing fantastic. How are you today?

Mario Fachini [1:00]
I’m having a great day.

Claire Chandler [1:02]
Good.

Mario Fachini [1:03]
I want to talk to you about the Whirlpool effect. Why is it important for business owners?

Claire Chandler [1:08]
Yeah, let’s do that, the Whirlpool effect is absolutely critical. If you want to be a leader that people actually want to follow, rather than follow out of some sort of Stockholm Syndrome or some other kind of intimidation factor. So yeah, the Whirlpool effect, it’s not an illusion, and it’s not a fad. It is absolutely the way to get the right people onto your team to stay on your team and enthusiastically contribute to your mission.

Mario Fachini [1:38]
And what I’m hearing is you’re talking about positional leadership, where the only real reason someone’s following you is because you’re their boss, you’re their superior, you’re just, that’s just the way it happened to fall. It’s not because they necessarily like you, trust you or respect you or anything. It’s just respecting authority.

Claire Chandler [1:56]
Yeah, and it’s the big dividing line, right? A lot of leaders carry that title, but don’t really wear that mantle. And there are people who look at them as a means to a paycheck, rather than a deep connection to a mission that they deeply believe in. So yeah, there is a huge dividing line between real leaders and pretend leaders.

Mario Fachini [2:18]
I like that. And I’m glad we’re gonna be talking about the proper way to do it. Because I don’t think anyone wants an organization. I know I sure as heck don’t where it’s just like you’re here, because that’s all it is a paycheck. And I flat out tell people that from the beginning, I’m like, this is not just another job. This isn’t a transaction. It’s not a one off project. You know what I mean? We’re doing this long term, if you don’t see that or share that. It may not be a good fit. What’s your take on it and dive? That was not intended, but dive right into the Whirlpool?

Claire Chandler [2:52]
Shall we?

Mario Fachini [2:53]
Yeah, please.

Claire Chandler [2:54]
So the concept of the Whirlpool effect actually started out as a childhood memory. So I’m based in New Jersey, born and raised in New Jersey, you’re probably going to ask me about my lack of accent, we can go there if there’s time. But, our summers were hot and humid and sultry and all of that. And it always seemed to be that the most popular kid on the block was the one with the swimming pool in the backyard. So spoiler alert, that wasn’t me, we didn’t have a pool. But a couple of my friends did. So every summer, all the neighborhood kids would gather. And that’s where we would spend a hot summer afternoon. And we bring out all the games right the Marco Polo, and all those other pool games. But invariably, somebody in the pool at some point in the day would shout out, Whirlpool. And immediately, we all knew what that meant. It meant whatever else we were doing, we would just start to follow each other in a circle. And after a couple of laps, you would pick up your feet, and you could be carried along with the flow that you’ve created. And when you think about it, that’s what real genuine, effective leadership looks like. Right? I have a simple message, my people immediately attach meaning to that they can see what success looks like. And they contribute their whole hands, heads and hearts, to making that a reality. So that’s really what the Whirlpool effect, both in the backyard swimming pool, and in reality, and leadership needs to look like.

Mario Fachini [4:31]
I like both of those situations. But I’m gonna do my darndest to stay on the leadership and the entrepreneurship side of this. But you got my wheels spinning. Admittedly, I grew up on the water, love the water, and I’ll just leave it at that for now.

Claire Chandler [4:46]
There you go.

Mario Fachini [4:46]
So my question for you is, you got a great company, you got people, maybe they’re a team, maybe they’re not. What if you don’t have the Whirlpool effect? How do you create it?

Claire Chandler [4:57]
It’s a great question and If anybody, any company, any team, any leader, at any point in their career can create the Whirlpool effect. And the biggest myth, I think that’s out there is that some leaders look at others and say, well, they are naturally charismatic, they naturally, when they speak, others listen, they fall in line, and they just follow them. And the reality is, any leader, regardless of your past, regardless of your skill set, can become that type of influential and inspirational leader. And the first place you have to start is with clarity, you have to become crystal clear on two things. One, why are you in business to begin with? Right? If you were the top dog in a company, then it’s more than just why are you specifically in that leadership position? But what does that business accomplish? What is truly your mission? If you’re a leader a little bit farther down the hierarchy, it really is about getting crystal clear on why you were put in that leadership role in the first place. And a lot of people stopped questioning that they just sort of rose up the ladder. And they said, well this was the next logical step. I’m now a leader of others, a leader of a bigger division. And they don’t stop and ask themselves and kind of check themselves on why am I in this particular leadership role at this particular time. So that’s clarity, number one. And clarity number two, is becoming super self aware of your natural talents, how you tend to lead, what drives you? What are some of your internal value systems and motivators? Because they’re different for everybody? And how do you tend to show up and use those in the workplace? If you look at the most charismatic, quote unquote, influential leaders, they are super self aware, we’re not talking about the snake charmers of the world who just seem to be charismatic. We’re talking about the real charismatic leaders who can generate a following of people who know, like and trust them. So those two points of clarity, what is my clarity of mission? And how can I become more self aware as a person in the way that I show up every day is absolutely fundamental to creating the Whirlpool effect?

Mario Fachini [7:20]
I want to dive deeper on that second point. What are the qualities to get to the point where you are naturally charismatic, and you’re not the snake charmer? And, how do you do that?

Claire Chandler [7:36]
Great. You know what? It’s a great question. So self awareness is step one, right? Because if you talk to performance management experts, and they say, if we don’t measure it, we can’t move it. It’s the same when you’re talking about trying to get to a higher level of self awareness, as an individual, as a leader, as a manager, as you know, whatever the role is in your company. But we’re focused on leaders, right? So the first step is to become really, really self aware of what you are naturally talented at? And again, that is different for everybody. And it starts with, how do you process the world around you? Right? How much of a big picture thinker Are you versus a, I see a problem, and I immediately see 20 different options of potential solutions, or kind of that third type of Yeah, I see the big picture sort of, yeah, I can see where we’ve got some practical approaches to getting our work done. But really, my first focus is how does this impact my people? So self awareness is the first key. But once we have that, it’s what we do with that, right? So anybody can become charismatic, and not be confused with a snake charmer, by becoming authentic to who they really are. And it’s not a one size fits all, right? If you look at the great leaders that you tend to admire, there are certain qualities that they possess, but they don’t all walk and talk and think and speak in the exact same way. What they do do, however, is embrace their unique style, their unique value system, their unique strengths, and they fully lean into those traits and those characteristics. They don’t try to be somebody else. Leaders make a big mistake of saying, Oh, well, leadership is a role that I play. No, it’s not. If you think it’s a role you play, it’s a costume you put on in the morning and you take it off again at night when no one’s watching, you’re doing it wrong. Right? So authenticity is that second piece that is fundamental, once you get to that place where you are really aware of the strengths and your blind spots and what you bring to the table and what you don’t, and then really leaning into your unique style and just letting your freak flag fly. There’s nothing wrong with that, especially as a leader.

Mario Fachini [9:56]
So it’s really about being the right person and not just trying to act a certain way or do whatever is expected of you. And you could even argue the point. It’s not just what you’re talented at, but what you’re great at. Because you might be talented at a dozen different things, but maybe 10 of them you shouldn’t even be doing.

Claire Chandler [10:18]
Oh, that’s such a cool observation. And you’re and you’re absolutely right. You know, if you if you sit there, and I do this exercise with some leaders that I work with, and I say, if you inventory, all the things that you do all the things you could do, and then start to categorize them into what are the things you’re, you’re really, really good at. And then from there, you know, that subset gets smaller and smaller. And now when you look at all the things that you’re great at, what are the things that not only are you great at which you love doing, right? You kind of lose track of time when you’re in that mode or that zone or doing that thing or with those people or in that category? So yeah, absolutely, I’d say that’s a great observation.

Mario Fachini [11:02]
If someone’s in that position, what could they do to narrow it down? Should it be super obvious? Or should it be like, well, I kind of like these five. But I’m not sure which three it should be? Or is it blatantly clear, you may have just never thought about it in the business realm before?

Claire Chandler [11:22]
Yeah, you know, for summit, it’s very obvious, for some, they can kind of short circuit, that whole exercise and say, I can tell you the top three things that, in an ideal world, as a leader, if I could only get to do these things, during the day, I’d be, happy as a clam. That’s a great position to be in, we don’t all have that immediate clarity, right? There are others who have to go through that full exercise and keep narrowing it down. And I like keeping a food diary. Right? Every time you go to the doctor with some nebulous system that has to do with anything internal they go, Well, have you kept a food diary? It’s like, yeah, you know what, you’re not the first one to say that, I really should do that. But, I just can’t get started. It’s similar to that, right? You want to inventory the things that you do, the things that you like, the things that you’re good at, retrospectively the things that you enjoyed in the past, the things that other people remarked on. But if you’re stuck, if you’re saying, I still have this huge list of things I could love, I could be really good at I’m not really sure. Make a list of 10 people who know you really well, people, you’ve worked with people, you’ve worked for people who’ve worked for you people in your personal life, people in your community, and go to them and say, What are the things that you know me for as a genius, or as something that I really love to do. And when do you get that kind of market research back? That’s going to help you narrow down that field considerably, as well. So, some of us excel at spending the time in our own heads, and saying, Yeah, I’m gonna come up the list, and I’m gonna keep narrowing it down, because I’m super self aware. And I can do all this reflection. We all talk to ourselves, right? Admit it. Others of us do need that sounding board, we do need that additional filter of other people kind of, getting back into our circle and saying, What am I not seeing here? Are there other things that should go on this list? Are there things that I’m trying to force into this list that, you know me, sometimes even better than I know, myself, a spouse is really good for this exercise, too, by the way, as we know, what are some of the things that I just hit out of the park all the time, and when you see me doing them, my face lights up? Those are the types of things you want to figure out and find.

Mario Fachini [13:41]
Now, you had said, what someone’s talented at, I had observed what they’re great at. But here’s like, a real deep dive of the deep dive. What if they’re great at it? But they don’t like it?

Claire Chandler [14:00]
Yeah, um,

Mario Fachini [14:01]
I think we all have stuff we’re great at. And it’s like, yeah, I might be great at it. But I have no care. I don’t want to do this every day.

Claire Chandler [14:09]
Yeah, so here’s where that filter becomes really powerful, right? Because if you’re great at 10 things, but eight of them you don’t particularly enjoy? Get rid of them now. So let’s kind of narrow this down to the professional sphere, right? I’m a leader, I’ve made my list. I’m down to 10 that I’m really really good at. I interviewed people in my inner circle, who knew, liked and trusted me, and these are the top 10 that I’m really, really good at. You want to still narrow that down. If you’re a leader, and you say okay, of the eight that I really don’t like to do. How many of them are critical to achieving my mission? You may be able to get rid of two right off the bat. Now you’re down to six, just hypothetically right? Now you’re down to six. Maybe there are other people on your team who also created those things, and happen to love doing them. So, that self awareness kind of extends to your team and really getting to know the people around you. And it distinguishes between getting the best talent, getting superstars and getting the right talent, right? Because that hypothetical pile of six things that you have agreed you’re great at, but you don’t really like. But they sit on the list because they’re mission critical. Now, you look at your extended team, and you say, Who can I put around me to complement what we know we have to do? But I don’t want to have to do it myself, because it’s just not something that gives me positive energy. So it’s all these filters that we want to apply as we go forward.

Mario Fachini [15:45]
There’s some great expert authority insight, and I appreciate you for sharing that. Because one of the things I love about asking the questions and learning this and getting the info for the expert authority world is you get the right answers. But it reminds me of this book, when you give a mouse a cookie, it’s like, oh, I need to do this. But what about that, but what about that, but what about that, and it’s like, it just keeps going down. But that’s what you need to do is niche it down to a point and get that hyper clear. There have been times I’ve done stuff for my business, and it’s like, oh, man, I nailed it in like a week later. I’m like, oh, but did I. And the more you get down there, it really gives you that clarity. And I will add confidence to be able to present in a way and show up in a way where it’s like, I don’t know what you’re doing. But I can tell there’s something there. And then you can be like, frankly, I don’t know what I’m doing. But yes, there is something there. You know, thank you for sharing that.

Claire Chandler [16:45]
Yeah, and let me let me just jump on something you just said because confidence is key. One of the things that I work on with leaders when I work with them one on one and even in groups, is to get them to a level of replicable confidence. I had to slow down when I said that because I always tripped over the word replicable. I tried to say it fast, but I couldn’t do it. But it’s really key, it is absolutely fundamental. If you are going to be a leader who can create the Whirlpool effect, you have to be confident. And again, we’re talking dividing lines here, there’s a huge difference between being confident, and being arrogant, between being confident in faking it until you make it, being confident and being cocky, right? Confidence means you can walk with this struggle, because you’ve got purpose, you know, where you’re going, you know, you’ve got the right team around you, you’re heading in the right direction, and you truly believe in your destination and that horizon that you’re striving for. So confidence to me is one of those absolutely fundamental attributes of an effective leader. And again, everybody can acquire it. For some, it just takes a little bit more time, a little bit more effort and energy than others.

Mario Fachini [18:07]
And we got to go one more layer now, that you mentioned three or four keywords that a lot of people interchange, I like confidence and one of my favorite things to share with people and I just came up with this. But to surmise that it’s basically one thing to want it is another thing to know you have it and you don’t even need to talk about it.

Claire Chandler [18:29]
Yeah.

Mario Fachini [18:30]
There’s a lot of people, whatever. And, sometimes it’s just fun to be like, you know what, I don’t even need to justify this. You know what I mean? It’s like you just know.

Claire Chandler [18:43]
Yeah.

Mario Fachini [18:44]
But you also said the cocky and arrogant side and fake it till you make it. So are you saying if someone’s starting offer that no one is as far along as they want to be? Because I know people at every level, and even some of the highest performers, when I get them on the show or talk to them, personally, we’re having dinner, whatever. They unveil all this stuff. It’s like, holy crap, how the heck did you get to where you’re at? Truthfully, it’s always interesting to me. It’s like, isn’t everyone faking it till it because I don’t think Aaron anyone ever truly makes it? Because the second you do, it’s like everything starts unraveling. But I do get what you’re saying where it’s like, Don’t try to be too over. Tell me your thoughts on this. I think you know where I’m going with this. But those are three keywords that are vastly different, but so closely related,

Claire Chandler [19:31]
They’re hugely different. One of the things you just mentioned is people who were first starting out, you’re kind of implying and I and i think rightly so that people who are first starting out, really need to be careful not to delude themselves that they have confidence, right? And there’s a difference between confidence that you’ve quote, unquote, made it and I agree with you, that’s sort of an elusive target to strive for. Because once you make it you should be restless enough to say, okay, that wasn’t the top of the mountain, that was just the top of this next peak. What’s next? Beyond that?

Mario Fachini [20:07]
You should still get a little nervous before you go live on the episode.

Claire Chandler [20:11]
You should. What a great observation there. Yeah, absolutely. And that’s the thing. That self awareness. You joke about that, but that’s 100%. Right? Whether you’re starting out, you’re in your first leadership role, or in your final home stretch, farewell tour, before you’re going to retire. Confidence starts with that self awareness. If you’re first starting out in business, where you have your first leadership role, again, you have to embrace leadership, not as a role that you play, but as a commitment that you make, right. So this, this crowd of fake it till they make it are the same people who look at leadership, as the trappings that come with that, I know people in the past who were so quick to label themselves leaders, and really what they were aspiring to was the corner office, the leather chair and the power that they could wield. That’s not real leadership. And that’s not confidence. That’s authority. And that’s the influence. But it’s misused, right? In its manipulation. getting very, very self aware of again, what you’re great at, what you love to do, and where you want to go with those things. If that could be kind of put into a Venn diagram, what’s that sweet spot? Right? What am I great at? What do I really love to do? And what’s going to help me move forward as a person, as a leader, as a business, as a team? Those are the things that you should absolutely focus on.

Mario Fachini [21:45]
And that’s a great distinction. I was smiling, because while I don’t agree with the authoritative and manipulative and all that I have nothing against nice leather executive chairs.

Claire Chandler [22:02]
Neither do I like comfort, right? But there’s a difference between

Mario Fachini [22:05]
Yes.

Claire Chandler [22:06]
The stature or it helps support your posture.

Mario Fachini [22:09]
I’m here now everyone listening, it’s meeting time?

Claire Chandler [22:12]
Exactly.

Mario Fachini [22:13]
Oh gosh.

Claire Chandler [22:13]
Exactly.

Mario Fachini [22:15]
Won’t you just go back in your car, we’re doing fine without you.

Claire Chandler [22:20]
Right.

Mario Fachini [22:21]
I’m gonna behave now because I have all kinds of stories from one, I wasn’t owning the company, and I was working for it so.

Claire Chandler [22:30]
Those experiences, we don’t have to share them. Now, we could set up a separate episode just done now, bad bosses, or Horrible Bosses or the sequel to that movie. But working under and working alongside and working within the view of really bad bosses, toxic bosses, ineffective bosses, is as helpful as working for and working within the sphere of really amazing leaders, right? Because, again, I mentioned earlier, you want to be self aware of your strengths, but you also want to be aware of your blind spots. And those bosses that we would never want to emulate, teach us exactly that they give us much more tangible targets to avoid, as we develop as we grow as we aspire to higher levels of accountability, as leaders, so I don’t think any of us would want to go back and work for those horrible bosses. But I’ve certainly had them and I’ve certainly encountered them. And I’m grateful for the experience in hindsight, glad they’re behind me. But you know, grateful for the experience, because it really does help to put in stark relief, the difference between the leaders that I want to emulate, learn from and work with, and leaders that I don’t.

Mario Fachini [23:51]
Again, another great distinction, and I appreciate you for sharing all of this because you made me think of one of them. It’s just like, I want to raise people up the whole reason I’m doing this and you know, God gave me the vision for the show is to exponentially elevate the identity of humanity. And I think I’ll just share it. It’s not hard, it’s not. But I always look to make people feel better no matter what it is, whether it’s business or not. In the one that just keeps ringing, I got dozens we could do a whole two day training. One of them was when I was working at a giant retail store. And I was vacuuming and I bumped into the metal floor wherever the stuff where the DVDs that they sell are at the bottom. And just like when you’re vacuuming anything, you’re gonna hit what’s around it. That’s where your floorboards are in the house. And he was like you better cut that out. Those racks are worth more than you are.

Claire Chandler [25:00]
Now I’m curious, how much longer after that comment, did you continue working for him?

Mario Fachini [25:08]
Interesting you say that, I never really put two and two together because there were other times when I was helping a customer with DVDs. And I was really trying to help her but couldn’t find it in the stockroom and screwed everything up. Even though the system in the computer showed that they weren’t on the shelf, they were in the wrong spot. And I was helping her for maybe six minutes versus 4.5. And again, a different day. I’m kneeled down looking, trying to help her. And he walks up and says, You’re taking too much time with other people who need her help. She’s done.

Claire Chandler [25:41]
Wow.

Mario Fachini [25:42]
And I’m like, and I was like, I am so sorry, Miss. She’s like, you’re great. I don’t know why he’s here. And it’s just interesting to me. Because the whole, every morning we’d have a, alright, let’s talk about customer loyalty and how to increase customer loyalty. Everyone does your little nuggets or buttons or pins or whatever. And I’m just like, You’re lucky what’s going on in my head will stay in a script or comedy routine and not in real life, because you’d be getting smacked over the head with this vacuum, at least you don’t treat people like that.

Claire Chandler [26:16]
And what’s amazing about that is that not only was the culture toxic, but it was in direct conflict with what they advertised, right? The fastest way to lose the right people is to have a brand promise, Yeah, come on board with us. We think of customers first, and we treat our employees great. And it’s an open door policy. And we want, an entrepreneurial mindset, every job description I’ve ever seen in corporate puts that bullet on there that we want an entrepreneurial mindset, we want people to think out of the box, and what is the first thing you do, when you go into that corporate environment, just as an example, and you think creatively, and you think off the page of your job description, you get slapped right back into the little box that they want you to play in. And so if your culture is very buttoned up, and it’s really not about customers, first, it’s about, bottom line profits or whatever. And I realized that doesn’t make a sexy mission statement. But I’m seeing that to be extreme, right? When there is a disconnect between the culture that you promised and the culture that you deliver, not only will you drive good people out the door, you will keep the ones that you want to get rid of. And it’s part of the reason that cultures get toxic to begin with. I always say that the biggest impact on a culture is the behavior of its leaders. And just that one story you shared, actually two examples of presumably the same guy, perpetuating this negative impact on your culture. You know, every time you I’m sure they posted these corporate values on the wall, that the customer comes first, and employees are our greatest asset and all of this other stuff. That’s not what you remember about that experience. You remember that this guy, I censored myself, you’re welcome, was leading, quote, unquote, the company. That is a perfect example of somebody who does not accept leadership as a commitment to do better, and to elevate the lives of the people around him. That is a perfect example of a leader who just plays the role. And not well.

Mario Fachini [28:33]
Yeah, and there were other people who were more deserving of it. And I’m not gonna say the company name, but if you see the blue, the yellow and the pink that are in this shot, and remove the pink, there were a lot of good people. But it was just like, there were a few in, he wasn’t the only one. It was just like, it was hilarious. But to your point of how long did you stay after that? I probably did not realize that at the time, and I’ve never thought about it. But now that you mentioned it because Black Friday is the biggest day of the year and this. Christmas time is the busiest season for an electronics retailer. Not much, maybe. I was actually hoping I wouldn’t make it past the seasonal help. Somehow I did. I always cared and I’m sure they saw that. But it was probably three, four months later, I just walked in one day. It was actually one of my greatest memories because I was getting ready to go on the wave runner and I was like this is cutting into my fun time. I don’t need to be here. I had my first business at this time. I literally only worked there because I like DVDs and movies. And I walked in one day and I was like, in my mind at the time it was I don’t want to be here anymore. It’s taking up too much of my life. And there’s better stuff I could be doing but it’s interesting you say that because I’m sure subconsciously my spirit and heart like day after day was just Getting rattled and rattled and rattled in. I probably wasn’t as self aware at the time, but I remember being there in the meeting in the morning, and there’s 20 people around. And as I went to my inventory manager, the manager of what department that’s what it’s called, it’s been a few years. And I was like, just looking around, she’s like you okay, I go. I’m gonna quit today. What do I need to do? Do I tell you to whom? Glenn maybe at the time, I was there paperwork, what do I do? And she didn’t even know what to do? Because it turned into this big thing. And then the meeting was starting, and by then everyone’s over. And they stopped the meeting to be like, okay, clearly everyone knows now this that, and I was just like, dude, the whole time. I’m like, Well, if I get out of here by 930, I can get home by 1030. And I can be in the lake by 11. I was like, just so I’m done.

Claire Chandler [30:55]
Yeah.

Mario Fachini [30:56]
And but there’s a lot of good there. I will say that there are a lot of nice people. But there was some real interesting characters who I don’t know how they had a higher level position. And they just acted like they owned the entire chain, not just the store or not just the area. It was just like, who was you? You had a double shot of Wheaties this morning. Hey. Wow,

Claire Chandler [31:24]
Your story, though, it’s so interesting. And that night that you were running the vacuum and got completely dressed down? Over abusing the DVD rack, the poor DVD rack? It’s one of those symptoms, right? And you even said, I probably stayed another three or four months, I’ll give you one better. When I finally left corporate. It was after a bunch of those symptoms started to pile up. So if I had asked myself that same question, there was a day I was walking down the hall. True Stories actually happened when my boss pulled me aside and he said, you really should think about toning down your walk. True story. I said, what do you mean, he goes, it’s really bouncy, and you just exude this happiness. And it freaked out some of the folks I worked in human resources at the time, some of whom had total Stockholm Syndrome. And he said, I had, I really should tone down my walk because it’s too happy. That’s freaking some people out, they think like I know, something they don’t, and I’m thinking, I guess I do, I must have some internal reserve of happiness. And maybe they don’t have access to it. And

Mario Fachini [32:43]
Too happy?

Claire Chandler [32:44]
Yeah, so if I told you that story, and you had asked me, how long after that did I leave, it was probably another year. And the longer you stay in an environment that doesn’t serve you, the longer you, and I’m not going to say it was toxic, I’m not going to equate it to a bad marriage. But the analogy is similar in that, you know, the longer you stay, the longer you convince yourself, well, I’ve invested all this time, and I’m on this certain track. And, I’ve put in all these years, and I’ve got, you know, people around me that I really care about, and if I left, what would I have? Right? So it took me a while and I look back at that particular situation. That particular evening that I was walking down the hall and told to tone down my walk?

Mario Fachini [33:42]
yeah, well, there’s a character flaw half with us.

Claire Chandler [33:45]
And that’s really what, in hindsight, stood out. That was one of the examples of why I never really fit in corporate. I made a very successful career in corporate, I did very well performance wise, and compensation and all of those things, but I always knew deep down, I didn’t really fit the corporate model, right? And so those were some of the symptoms and like your story with, you know, being completely ridiculed for bumping into a DVD rack.

Mario Fachini [34:20]
Oh, and much more, important issues.

Claire Chandler [34:23]
Well, those are things that start to pile up. And now that you look back at them, those are the things that you remember very clearly and you say, yeah, that guy was a jerk or that culture was hypocritical or, it’s amazing that that company continues to stand. The bigger the company, the easier it is for them to absorb some of that toxicity. But the small companies really need to watch out for that. That’s why I said earlier, even the bad leaders, the bad cultures, the bad businesses, provide a learning opportunity because as we grow or we go out on our own, you went out on your own, and I suspect you never stopped smiling. Because you saw when you finally kind of broke free of that forcefield rate of working for somebody else, you kind of look back and you said, thanks for the lessons, thanks for the experience. But now I’ve got much more clarity on where I want to go, who I want to be, and who I don’t want to be. And gosh, you can breed so much more freely when you have that clarity. And that freedom don’t you?

Mario Fachini [35:28]
For sure. And I’d say you did the same thing. And the one class in college I remembered actually going into and doing stuff in was Econ, and I remember the terms? Well, let’s just go with one of them that I’m thinking of underemployed, we could have been doing so much more at the time, and we were just here. So we created our own higher level position and helped more people.

Claire Chandler [35:56]
That’s awesome. Absolutely.

Mario Fachini [35:58]
I think there’s a lot of people like that, I know that most people leave for lack of appreciation, not because of the paycheck. And it’s unfortunate, because I always do everything I can to uplift, clients, prospects, my own team, and everything in it’s like, sometimes people might just be dealing with stuff that it’s like you don’t even know about. And if they don’t share it, how do you know, but you should never be treating people. But even if they did a horrible job, you don’t have to condone the person just be like, hey, let’s talk about the quality of your work.

Claire Chandler [36:31]
And part of being a leader who even has the capacity to create the Whirlpool effect, you have to create the right environment, right? you can have a swimming pool that’s full of electric eels, then still expect to inspire the Whirlpool effect, right?

Mario Fachini [36:48]
It’ll be one heck of a show.

Claire Chandler [36:51]
It would be interesting to see it from the sideline.

Mario Fachini [36:52]
Let’s see, who’s this one fastest, from end to end.

Claire Chandler [36:55]
Exactly

Mario Fachini [36:56]
Who wants to go first? The sad thing is there’s so many people that are craving attention, they’re like For how much? $1,000? Yeah, let’s do it.

Claire Chandler [37:05]
Yeah, that’s such a great point. Because if there’s an analogy to business, right? There can be a completely toxic culture that tolerates bad behavior, and therefore, that’s what gets repeated, elevates really bad managers, because they get bottom line results. And so that’s who gets advanced, when I may, an employee farther down the hierarchy. And I see that that is what gets rewarded, I have a decision to make, right? Either I become what they reward, or I get the heck out of there before it changes me. And what you’re left with over time, if you continue to do that, is that toxic swimming pool full of electric eels. Because nobody else can survive in that water. You can’t throw a goldfish in the middle of that pool. Right? You can’t throw a clown fish, I was probably a clown fish really, in that analogy? Let’s be honest. But my sarcasm, I think was a little bit too, above the threshold of tolerance in corporate America. But, going back to your comment about, people may be going through something that we don’t really know about unless they tell us if we as leaders, and we as business cultures don’t create an environment where, I’m not suggesting you allow people to just come in and bring all of their dirty laundry and all of their home drama in there. But should you want to create an environment where people can thrive. And the bad leaders, the leaders who are truly not actually leaders, are creating an environment where you have to have survival instincts, how is that going to be a sustainable business where you have a steady flow of talent, coming in the door, and saying, I don’t even care what my job description is, I want to be part of this company. I want to be part of this culture. And I want to be in your orbit as a leader. That’s what you want to attract. You don’t want to attract people that are just sharks and barracudas and all of this other, I’m just trying to come up with all these swimming pool analogies. But you know what I’m saying, if you truly want to be a leader, who leaves a lasting impact, and a legacy, not just in the business world, but for your family, for your community, for the people who know you. Wouldn’t you rather be somebody who creates an environment and inspires the Whirlpool effect than somebody who manages through manipulation and intimidation and pays people just to stay?

Mario Fachini [39:43]
Yeah, you don’t definitely don’t want them there. That’s one thing I’ve learned. And the number one thing whether it’s prospects or team is the qualifications. Who are you letting in the door in the first place that’s on you? Oh, all these people don’t know what went on the last 99 people didn’t know what’s going on, what’s the common denominator there, Bob? And I remember it’s reminding me of something. What if we pay for all this training? And do they go to the competitor? And it’s like, well, what if we don’t train them and they stay?

Claire Chandler [40:17]
That’s right.

Mario Fachini [40:18]
And as far as the Whirlpool in the swimming pool with the eels. Nothing says you couldn’t show up in a personal luxury submarine, sell the other seven tickets, and drive around and just wave at everything going on. I mean, it might be a beginning company policy, what if it’s your company rewriting the policy? Right?

Claire Chandler [40:38]
Yeah.

Mario Fachini [40:39]
So I appreciate everything you’re saying. I got one more question for you. And we’re gonna come back and do the imperfect action round, and it is. The Wheel of whatever. Oh, come on. There we go.

Claire Chandler [40:58]
I love props, man.

Mario Fachini [41:01]
Now you can see it.

Claire Chandler [41:02]
Yeah,

Mario Fachini [41:03]
It’s not that scary. Is it?

Claire Chandler [41:04]
No.

Mario Fachini [41:06]
All right. So my question for you is, which company Do you believe should be turned around the most?

Claire Chandler [41:15]
You’re looking for a brand name. Are you looking for just a general description?

Mario Fachini [41:19]
Yeah, I was aiming for a brand name. I mean, is there someone right now that stands out that you’re just like this company, or maybe an industry, if you don’t want to go to that point?

Claire Chandler [41:31]
I’m not gonna name any names. But, I do have a couple of characteristics that I’ve seen out in the business, that were prospective clients that I kind of walked away from, because they just didn’t get it. 2020 obviously, was a bit of an anomaly, a very unique year. And it’s going to be years before we really truly understand the full scope and the impact of what COVID has had on business, on ways of working, etc. I think the businesses that are going to have a toughest time turning around, or not so much the ones that were caught flat footed by a global pandemic, because I think everybody was to some extent. It’s the ones who when they had to radically and very immediately shift the way they were working, primarily go from office based to remote based the ones and I’ve seen this, and they never got themselves kind of out from under this, this model, the ones with and I’m going to use air quotes, when I say their leadership team, looking at the shift to remote work with skepticism that there people left unsupervised, were truly being productive. I saw leadership teams, again, in air quotes, in some companies who, when they were forced to pivot to remote work, rather than embracing that new reality, and looking at ways to get more creative, more innovative, more efficient, more effective, and taking the extra effort to stay connected to their employees. They sat in their own offices in their own bubbles. And they said, I’m not convinced they’re doing the work that they would have been doing in the office. So, I really question whether this is a sustainable model. And you’re going to see those same companies at the earliest opportunity, go right back to forcing a Monday through Friday, nine to five in the office, kind of a kind of a workforce, and they’re going to drive themselves into the ground. So, I’ve seen that in a couple of industries. I’ve seen that in a couple of management, business models. And I saw the cracks in their foundation before COVID had even come up. You know, these were companies that had been contemplating shifting to a more flexible work arrangement, but couldn’t get out of their own way. And they delayed and they delayed and delayed because they couldn’t figure out how to still control all of the activities, if they gave people flexibility. And then COVID came in. And they use that as justification to say, you see, I’m not convinced that they’re still working as hard as we need them to, and that we can get to where we’re going. So it’s those companies that didn’t just look at this as it didn’t look at what COVID did to us as an opportunity to get better and to be better. They saw this COVID from the mentality of a victim, that here we go, we already couldn’t get enough out of our people. And now they’re going to goof off. Those companies are not going to be around and if they are they’re not gonna be once you want to work with or four.

Mario Fachini [44:52]
Yeah, it’s interesting because I’ve been telling people for over a decade to do more stuff online, automated use systems, use software, do all this stuff. I mean, there’s nothing that’s being done. That hasn’t been around 10, 15, 20 years.

Claire Chandler [45:06]
Absolutely.

Mario Fachini [45:06]
Companies are changing. There’s vastly more people accepting it. But when people are like, do you want to get on a zoom call? I’m like, No, the phone works fine. Like, we’re not filming something. We’re not doing a presentation. We’re just talking about a couple of things. They’re like, really, you don’t mind? What did we do in the last decade? Think about it. Like, I think we all got enough electronics. But it’s just astonishing, because it’s one of the things with marketing and helping companies and the hundreds of clients we’ve personally worked with. It’s like, it’s interesting to see the behind the scenes because everyone looks good up front. And I’m glad that some of them are adapting to it. But yeah, I’m curious what the final percentage will be that just goes right back to the way things were in then just blame it on. Just pick the I could spend the wheel of whatever and be like, Here’s 58 things you get to choose from pick one there. Oh, yeah. Must have been them. Yeah. So thank you for your insight on that. We’re gonna thank our sponsor, and come back for the imperfect action run.

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Mario Fachini [47:41]
And we are back with the imperfect action around Claire, are you ready to take imperfect action?

Claire Chandler [47:46]
I am absolutely ready, you are going to find no one more imperfect than me to fire away.

Mario Fachini [47:51]
62nd answers three rapid fire questions. The first one is what is the fastest path to the profits?

Claire Chandler [47:58]
The fastest path is clarity. No question. It doesn’t even take me 60 seconds. So you got to get crystal clear on why you’re in business in the first place while you’re in your leadership role and act accordingly.

Mario Fachini [48:09]
Excellent. Number two, what is the biggest problem you see your prospects making and the fastest way for them to fix it?

Claire Chandler [48:16]
I think the biggest problem that most leaders and most businesses make is taking their mission for granted. Quite honestly, I don’t mean to harp on that, but it is so foundational. So some companies just sort of either assume that they’ve got that part nailed. Or they assume it’s not that important that it be articulated. So you know, it’s the fastest thing to fix, because you just need to reconnect with why you’re in business in the first place. And what that horizon is that you’re striving for, nail that down, and you’d be amazed at how much easier your decisions get.

Mario Fachini [48:50]
Very good. Number three, what is the best way to maximize customer lifetime value.

Claire Chandler [48:57]
Don’t treat them like a customer, treat them like a relationship that you want to continue to nurture. You want to surpass expectations. And that does not always translate into what I’ve got to give them more for less. But you want to build upon the relationship that you’ve created, really deliver not just what they’ve asked for, but things that they cannot see around the corner. That’s really where you create lifetime value.

Mario Fachini [49:22]
What books would you recommend to the expert authority world?

Claire Chandler [49:26]
Other than my own, I would recommend anything by the brilliant Brene Brown. I most recently read dare to lead and for anyone in a leadership role, whether it’s your first role or your 50th leadership role. Go and read that book.

Mario Fachini [49:44]
Excellent. And where would you like people to learn more?

Claire Chandler [49:47]
They can reach me at clairechandler.net. Have a couple of other websites but that is the best one stop shop to connect with me, learn more about me and set up some time to chat if they’re so inclined.

Mario Fachini [50:00]
I love that I tell everyone a single call to action. Good for you. Seriously.

Claire Chandler [50:06]
Awesome,

Mario Fachini [50:06]
Claire, this has been a pleasure. Thank you so much.

Claire Chandler [50:09]
Thank you. It’s been great.

Mario Fachini [50:11]
All right, expert authority world. We have another great episode here today. I’ll see you tomorrow. Have a great day. God bless.

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www.EAInterviews.com [50:20]
Hey, thanks for listening to today’s episode. I hope you got a lot out of it. I know I sure did. If you haven’t done so already, I invite you to subscribe to the show. And also be sure to check out EAInterviews.com for complete show notes, the full interview video experience links to the resources we mentioned in more. Have a blessed day and I’ll see you tomorrow.