How to Convert Engaged Listeners Into Fanatic Followers and Hungry Buyers Leveraging Podbooker: Guest Podcasting Booking Platform with Founder & CEO Daniel Gefen on Episode #0252

Daniel Gefen [0:00]
Hey this is Daniel Gefen and with podbooker.com and you’re listening to EA interviews,

Intro [0:04]
EA interviews, Episode 252 inspiration, transformation success stories and the imperfect action round, seven days a week. Join Mario Fachini for today’s Expert Authority Effect Interview.

Mario Fachini [0:19]
All right, expert authority world they let me off the chain today and I’m taking full advantage of it. I am super excited to have our next guest on today’s episode. If you’ve ever thought about starting a podcast, trying to book guests, and just figuring out where do I find these people? What should I do? I am excited to have none other than bestselling author, speaker, CEO, and SAS developer Daniel Gefen. On today’s episode, we’re gonna dive into all things podcast, how to book guests and how to find the right ones. And maybe, maybe just maybe, if you qualify, he can even find them for you and deliver them up on a silver platter. I’m going to bring them up right after we thank our sponsor.

Sponsor – Free Business Book Publishing Course [1:03]
Every business needs a book, including yours, visit freebusinessbookpublishingcourse.com today to learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. Once again, that’s freebusinessbookpublishingcourse.com.

Mario Fachini [1:18]
Ladies and gentlemen, Daniel Gefen. Daniel, how are you feeling today?

Daniel Gefen [1:22]
I’m feeling very special. This is incredible. Wow, what a production. I just want to take my hat off. I’m not wearing one. But if I had one, I would take it off to Mario. This is incredible. I’ve been on a lot of podcasts. And I feel like I’m on primetime TV right now. It’s incredible. And wow, look at your tie, man. It’s beautiful.

Mario Fachini [1:46]
I love it. Well, I appreciate that. On Wednesdays, we wear pink.

Daniel Gefen [1:50]
We wear pink, you know, I wish I would have known because I would have wore pink. But you didn’t tell me? Oh, well.

Mario Fachini [1:58]
Well, the important thing is you have the content. And that is first and foremost, most important. all the bells and whistles make it look nice. And I appreciate the compliments. And I’m glad it does look nice. But the main thing is the content. And I know you can deliver on that because you are just such a wealth of knowledge. And why don’t you tell us a little bit about your story and how you got into it. Because it’s so compelling to me.

Daniel Gefen [2:24]
First of all, I appreciate that. Thank you. Oh, I hope I deliver now after that kind of introduction. See, well,

Mario Fachini [2:31]
We’re just gonna have some fun.

Daniel Gefen [2:32]
All right, cool. So the backstory, I’ll try to keep it as brief as I can. About four years ago, I was playing tennis. And I got this phone call from this complete stranger, who said to me, Daniel, I hear you have an interesting, you know, business story. I’d like to have you on my podcast. And I’ll never forget my response to him, which was, what the heck is a podcast? Like I had no idea what a podcast was. And in fact, my you know, four years ago, most people didn’t know what a podcast was today. Now there’s over 150 million Americans listening to podcasts regularly, which is incredible. And there’s over 1.5 million podcasts out there. And that number is just growing every day. But four years ago, you know, most people didn’t know what podcasts were. So he explained it to me. And just to kind of give you context for this, because a lot of people say to me, Daniel , I don’t know if I can go on podcasts because you know, I’m not famous, I don’t have a book. I don’t have a following. You know, all that stuff. At that time. I did not have any social media following. I didn’t have an email list. Zero, nothing. I didn’t have a book. I didn’t have any speaking experience. Unless you count mis jumping on tables in high school and getting detention for that. That was basic, nice. Yeah, that was my speaking experience. But other than that, nothing. And so when this person invited me on their podcast, I was very honored. And I said, Sure, you know, I’d love to come on. So next thing I know, I’m sitting in my pajamas, staring at a blank wall, speaking into a microphone. By the way, I’m, I’m actually in my pajamas right now. So not much has changed since then. But I just started speaking and sharing my story. And at the end, the host said, well, thank you so much for coming on the show, Daniel. And I said, Well, , thank you so much for having me. But in my mind, I’m thinking besides for this guy and his mother, who else is listening to this, right? Like, who am I talking to? So I kind of, you know, picked up the courage and said, I hope you don’t mind me asking this, but like, you know, how many people are actually listening to this? And in my mind, I really thought he was gonna say something like, 1020 people, which would have been fine, because at that point, that would have been 10 or 20 more people than I had, that were in my network, right. And so when he turned granddad said, well, Daniel, there were over 1000 people listening. I fell off my chair. I said, What? Are you kidding? Can you repeat that? Did you just say 1000 people? He said, yeah. I said, Come on, there’s no way where are all these people? And he said, Well, they’re all over the world. And he starts listing all these countries. Some of them I didn’t even recognize. That was nuts. I thought to myself, some of the biggest speakers in the world get on stage. And if they’ve got over 1000 people in the audience, that’s a packed crowd. And here’s Daniel Gefen, who’s this nobody, like invisible online. If you typed My name into Google back then I didn’t show up, right. And here I am speaking to over 1000 people all over the world. And that was just a huge for me, it was like a huge realization that this is going to be this is going to be massive, I need to get into podcasting. So two weeks later, I started my own podcast called Can I pick your brain? The goal was to interview the leading business owners, you know, leading business people of the generation, there were only two problems. Mario one, I didn’t know any successful business owners to interview because I had no network. Small problem, right? And two, I had no audience. So how do I get people to listen to the podcast? So that’s when I had this sort of light bulb moment when I realized, you know, that guy had over 1000 people listening? Why don’t I just go on other podcasts and leverage other people’s audiences? Instead of trying to figure out how to build my own audience, I’ll just be a guest on other podcasts. And hopefully, they’ll come and listen to my podcast. So that was my tactic. And it worked way better than I could ever have dreamt in my wildest imagination. In a very short period of time, my podcast, which hit over 300,000 downloads, became a top 50 ranked podcast on iTunes. I ended up interviewing four billionaires, the smartest man alive, the US memory champion, the leading hostage negotiator for the FBI, and a whole host of other incredible guests. And then I wrote a book, which became an international bestseller. And this was all just getting booked on podcasts. It was incredible. So that’s the first part of the story. Second part…

Mario Fachini [7:23]
Let me before we get to the second part, you just gave so many expert authority insights there, I just want to unpack a few of them. For the audience, because you were saying, Can you give me a year just so because this is gonna, you know, this is gonna be evergreen? And you said four years ago, but what year was that specifically?

Daniel Gefen [7:45]
Well, this was 2016. Roughly, that’s what I was thinking. Yeah. At the end of 2016.

Mario Fachini [7:55]
Okay, so at the end of 2016, you would start at this? How many? How many other shows? Did you go on in the first six months to 12 months? Would you say? To get the show from zero to 300,000 downloads?

Daniel Gefen [8:09]
Yeah, I would probably say went on as a good question. I probably lost count. Which is Yeah. Which is actually interesting, because when I launched, we could talk about pod workers soon, I’m sure. But when I launch Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah. When I launched the podbooker platform. So one of the things that I wanted to solve, there were a lot of problems I wanted to solve. But one of the problems that I wanted to solve was how do you keep track of all the podcast appearances that you’ve been on? Right? Most people if you ask them, you know, which podcast Have you been on? A lot of them don’t remember, because they’ve been on so many. And it’s just hard to keep track of it all.Right. So with podbooker, I can relate to that. You can podbooker, you’ve got a guest profile. And on your guest profile, you can upload very easily all of the podcasts that you’ve been featured on. So now if you go to my pod worker profile, you’ll see all the podcasts that I’ve been a guest on that I can remember. I’m still remembering them, but I think they were about 50. If I was to throw out a number, it was about, I would say between 50 and 60 podcasts.

Mario Fachini [9:16]
In the first six months.

Daniel Gefen [9:18]
No, not in the first six months. I would say first year. Yeah. The first year, I would say maybe 50. Around 50. Okay.

Mario Fachini [9:26]
Yeah. See, and what I’m hearing about that is you had very great growth, but 50 over the course of a year in, you know, take a couple weeks off for holiday. That’s one a week that’s very manageable. That’s not over the top. No, not an assistant.

Daniel Gefen [9:44]
Yeah, not at all. And if you think about the time investment, I mean, the average podcast is 45 minutes long. Right? So if you’re doing one a week, that’s really pretty much putting aside an hour a week . It’s very little time investment for the return that you get. It’s incredible.

Mario Fachini [10:06]
Yeah, and if you’re talking about that 45 minutes, extrapolated all year, you’re talking maybe one week’s work like a full 40 Hour Workweek. Yeah. Yeah, it’s

Daniel Gefen [10:16]
a no brainer. I mean, personally, I would recommend if you can, if you could do a podcast today, that that would be ideal. You’re talking about supernatural growth. I’m serious, man, you got to get serious about this. If you really want to blow up your brand, you want to

Mario Fachini [10:31]
Know you’re serious.

Daniel Gefen [10:32]
You gotta you gotta do it. And to put aside an hour a day to really build your audience and build your authority. I don’t see any other thing that you could possibly do today, that would give you a better return on your time.

Mario Fachini [10:51]
Now, I’m gonna play devil’s advocate here and say, Well, what about book publishing? What about running ads? What about speaking at someone else’s summit?

Daniel Gefen [11:00]
I’ll go into all of them if you want. Let’s talk about at least let’s start with let’s start with the one that everybody does, which is social media. Right? Everybody,

Mario Fachini [11:11]
Whatever you want, say whatever you want.

Daniel Gefen [11:13]
Everyone I speak to has published a book or wants to promote their whatever product service or wants to build their brand. I asked them, What are you doing right now? Oh, I’m going on social media. Really? Oh, wow. Yeah, you’re going on? So what was the other? I don’t know how many billion people there are, right? It’s so noisy. The average attention span right now on social media is three seconds. So just to paint the picture for you. If you put a post up on Instagram or Facebook, Suzy sitting on the toilet, telling her thighs to go numb is scrolling through that feed, and you might get, if you’re lucky, 2.9 seconds of our attention. It’s, it’s worthless. What are you going to sell in three seconds of someone’s attention? And that attention? How much is that attention worth? They’re not thinking about investing in themselves at that point. When you’re sitting on the couch, scrolling through Facebook or whatever, you’re in a mind numbing mindset. You’re not in a growth mindset. People who listen to podcasts, on the other hand, are growth minded people who are wanting to invest in themselves and people who want to learn and grow. If you’re listening to this right now, I congratulate you, you’re someone who invests in yourself. You’re someone that sets aside time to want to grow and learn and gain knowledge. And you know, you could be listening to Metallica while you’re going on your run. Or you could be watching some, you know, mind numbing whatever on YouTube or scrolling through a Facebook feed. So congratulations for tuning in. But that’s the kind of audience you want to be in front of. Right? The average podcast episode is 45 minutes long. Over 85% of people that listen to podcasts listen to the whole thing from start to finish. That’s 45 minutes of undivided attention. Do you understand? That’s gold? That’s a goldmine today. So don’t talk to me about social media for sure. Get that out of it. Forget about it. Right? ads, you want to talk about buying ads? Who seriously watches ads when you go on YouTube? Because you want to watch whatever video you want to, do you sit there waiting for the ad to finish, or do you literally hit that, smash that skip button as soon as the five seconds is up? Right? Everyone’s sitting there waiting? Just like okay, okay, okay, come on. 4, 3, 2, 1, boom, Get out my face. Next,…

Mario Fachini [13:43]
That’s why I have a YouTube premium. I just pay for it.

Daniel Gefen [13:46]
So did you just hit that you pay to not see ads? You pay not to see ads, and people are spending money to show people ads, and people are paying not to see them? Do you see an issue with that? Now, on the flip side, people are coming to listen to this podcast. And they’re tuning in, they are wanting to spend 45 minutes of their day or an hour of their day to invest their time in consuming this content. So now I’m getting 45 minutes on average of their attention. And guess what? I didn’t pay to be on this podcast. It didn’t cost me anything. In fact, if I would have paid you Mario for a 32nd ad, it would have done a fraction, a fraction of a percentage of what I’m getting from actually being the provider of the content for this podcast episode.

Mario Fachini [14:49]
And I actually wouldn’t have even let you pay to be on because I’ve only invited the people I know are a good fit for the audience. And they are, I’m going to share the value because the second you paid to be on. I feel like you’re now quantifying it as an ROI only to beat you into sales mode. Yep,

Daniel Gefen [15:11]
Yep. 100% look at any, I mean, again, you could have the smart brands are the ones that when they create an ad, they make it. They create it so that it looks like a great piece of content. It looks like a story, it looks like, like you’re watching a movie, those are the best ads. By the way, the best ads are the ones that you don’t even know it’s an ad. And if you’re smart, and you go on a podcast as a guest, you’ll do the same thing. Everyone selling, right, we’re all selling, but it’s how you

Mario Fachini [15:45]
You don’t need to be salesy. You should have a call to action, by all means promote your stuff, right? But don’t think of it like a billboard or something.

Daniel Gefen [15:54]
Exactly. And how do you sell naturally? Number one is you become relatable to the audience, you share your personal story of how you were where they are, or you show how you were once in a position. That wasn’t a successful place, right? You like what I shared before I said I was an invisible person online. I didn’t even know what a podcast was right? You get vulnerable, you share that. And then you talk about your breakthrough. Right? What was your aha moment for me? It was getting on podcasts. And by the way, now, you know, I’m an international best selling author, I got all these things, yada, yada, yada, right. And that’s essentially selling without selling, because the person listening to this wants to be a best selling author or wants to have a top rated podcast, or wants to interview, you know, the leading authorities in their space or wants to be working with their dream clients and living a dream life. They’re going to want to get on podcasts. Right. And that’s, that’s pretty much what I do.

Mario Fachini [16:59]
And you were also saying, as far as publishing a book, yeah, compared to going on podcasts?

Daniel Gefen [17:08]
Well, look, I mean, first of all, you could do both. Right? And I would recommend that if you have the opportunity to write a book, you should write a book, no question about it. Because again, it just adds to your credibility. Right? When, as soon as you’ve written a book people take you it’s like a different you’re in it, you’re in a different league. People just look at you like, oh, wow, you’re an author, you’ve written a book, they take you seriously, they take you more seriously than they would otherwise. The other thing as well is that when you’re getting on podcasts, and you’ve got a book to promote, I mean, there is nothing that sells more than books on podcasts. I mean, books sell, like hotcakes on podcasts. It’s crazy. And the reason why, by the way, is it’s a very little low investment, anyone can afford to buy a book, right? And it also happens to be that the people who listen to podcasts also read lots of books, right? They’re the, they’re the people who are investing in their self growth. Well, those are the people that go and buy books. And so I think they go hand in hand. It’s a really great sort of strategy to be writing a book promoting your book and getting on podcasts to promote it.

Mario Fachini [18:26]
You weren’t joking, and you really were gonna tear all three of those up, but I’m appreciative of you did, because like I said, I know you’re a wealth of information. And you’re right, they are very complimentary, because, you know, I am the expert of the 32nd Publishing math method to help people publish their business books. And that’s what I talked about when I’m guest on other shows, and not hosting. And it’s really easy to see the sales go up afterwards. And you know, I also can track Oh, my episode on someone else’s show went live here. And then there’s just magically more downloads for this show expert authority effect interviews. It’s really fun to see. And it’s fun to add value. So would you say, well, for someone starting off versus someone who’s more experienced what would the goal be? Would you say one a week is a good place to start? Or are you really saying no matter if you’re experienced or brand new, you should be starting five days a week?

Daniel Gefen [19:29]
You know what the best place to start is Mario? Just starting.

Mario Fachini [19:34]
It is a trick question.

Daniel Gefen [19:34]
Just started getting on a podcast because there’s so many people who are just, oh, I don’t know they’re overthinking it. Most people overthink and therefore do nothing. And so the best advice I can honestly give is just start. Just don’t be too calculated about it. Just get on the next podcast you can get on and it’s I’ll be honest, it’s an addictive one, Once you start getting on podcasts, and you start sharing your stories and start building your audience, it’s like crack cocaine. I mean, it’s not that I know what crack cocaine is like, because I’ve never done it.

Mario Fachini [20:12]
I was gonna say, I’ve never had it either myself but…

Daniel Gefen [20:14]
Right. But um, it’s highly addictive, because it’s when you start to see the results, and you start to see, oh, my goodness, this is fun. You know, most marketing isn’t fun, it’s annoying. You have to get on sales, you have to try to chase people and convince them and you have to try to figure out how to, you know, beat our people to the punch and whatever it is, and you got it and hear it. You’re just enjoying yourself. You’re literally just having fun. And building your brand. I mean, it’s incredible.

Mario Fachini [20:55]
I think we may have come up with an ad there. Oh, no, here we if you like cocaine, I guess podcasting? We could do some Shopify. Yes.

Daniel Gefen [21:05]
Oh, Teespring. Seriously? Yeah.

Mario Fachini [21:09]
So as far as having your own show, let’s talk about that for a hot second because we both do. And would you say you should do a bunch of guesting first then start the show or start the show and do the guesting?

Daniel Gefen [21:23]
Look, I mean, starting a podcast today is so easy compared to you know, four years ago, five years ago, today, you just literally, you know, with zoom, and with, you know, hosting companies like buzzsprout, and there’s so many of them. There’s really no excuses anymore. You literally just, for less than $100 you’ve got the equipment, you just need a quiet room, and boom, you have your own podcast. If you asked me, which one’s more effective for building your brand and building your audience, you know, to me hands down, it would be guesting on other people’s podcasts because you’re essentially leveraging other people’s work. Like, let’s talk about right now the situation we have right now, Mario, you’re sitting in the hot seat, you’re the host, you’re doing all the work really, okay, you’ve had to reach out to me, you’ve done your research on me, you’re publishing this episode, you’re gonna have to edit the episode, you’re gonna have to promote it, right? You’re doing all the work, the heavy lifting, I’m just coming on. I’m just basically sharing stuff I already know. Like, there’s no sweating on my, on my own, you know. And once this is finished recording, I’m done. I can go to bed, I can go, you know, play a video game, whatever it is that I want to go and do. You’ve now got to go and you know, polish it up and do all the things that you’ve got to do. So who’s got an easier time right now? Me or you right? I do. And here’s the other thing you are..

Mario Fachini [22:03]
Thank you for the reminder of the other 15 steps my team and I have to do.

Daniel Gefen [22:30]
Yeah, exactly. And it’s your audience, which means that you’re talking to the same people that already know you. I’m talking to a whole new audience that may not know me. And so I reap all the benefits, but do none of the work. Is that fair? Not really. But hey, that’s the power of being a guest on a podcast. So if you’re listening to this, and you’re still thinking, should I get on podcasts? I mean, stop thinking about it, go do it. And especially now because right now, we are still at the early stages of podcasting. I hear people say, oh, have I missed the boat? Not at all. Because if you think about it, 1.5 million podcasts is the total number of podcasts that are out there, however, there is only around 800,000 data active. That means that they are still publishing. Now, again, you might think 800,000 sounds like a lot. It doesn’t. It isn’t a lot, because think about how many YouTube channels there are close to 100 million. Right? So there’s less than a million podcasts that are active, but there’s over 100 million YouTube channels. How many blogs are there? close to a billion. a lot. Yeah, close to a billion blogs. So when you compare the podcast space, which has less than a million active podcasts, to YouTube channels or to blogs, it’s we haven’t even got started. We’re not even, we’re not even, we’re nowhere near saturation point. You’re still in the early days. And here’s the other thing. It doesn’t cost money to be a guest on a podcast. I’m not paying to be on this podcast. Now. That’s going to change. I predict that in the near future, I would say probably within a year from now, most podcasters are going to start charging their guests to be on their show. In fact, it’s already happening. There are a number of podcast hosts that I know who are charging a pretty penny to be a guest on their podcast. I know because I used to get my clients on their shows. He’s a top rated podcast. And today they’re charging, one of them’s charging $3500 per guest. $3500.

Mario Fachini [25:21]
What would you say? Is the low end? A couple? 100? Yeah, 500?

Daniel Gefen [25:24]
Yeah, $500 is what a normal rate that I’m seeing. So let’s do the math for a second, Mario. That means if you want to get on just 10 podcasts, it’s gonna cost you $5,000, you’re gonna have to have at least $5,000 just to get on, 10 decent podcasts in a year from now. But today, if you start getting on podcasts today, zero, nothing you can get on 100 podcasts won’t cost you. Now, if you hire an agency like mine, okay, you’re paying but you’re paying for the top shows, it’s different.

Mario Fachini [26:02]
You’re paying me you’re paying for the you’re paying for the service for you, you and your team to take the time to do the booking and the correspondence and setting it all up.

Daniel Gefen [26:12]
Yeah, I mean, it’s not just time to remember, it’s relationships, right? We don’t work with Geffen Media Group, we only work with the top 250 podcasts. Now, those podcast hosts are extremely selective on who they have on their shows. Right? So they’re turning down like 95% of pitches. And that was the second part of my story. Basically I started getting bombarded with emails from PR agencies and book publicists. And basically people trying to get on my podcast or trying to get their clients on my podcast as guests. And I was sending, I would say, 95% of those pitches to spam because they all sucked. Like they just didn’t know how to, they didn’t know how to pitch number one, they didn’t know me, I didn’t have a relationship with them. And I didn’t know them. And number two is they didn’t know how to position their clients. They all sounded the same. They all sounded boring. Hey, I’ve got a great guest for you. He’s got a book and he’s a, you know, a coach. Oh, really? Wow, that’s exciting. Tell me something that’s exciting about this person that there was nothing exciting, nothing new. It was boring. And I was getting dozens of these a day. And after a couple of months, I woke up one day. And I said to myself, you know what? People are paying a lot of money for these PR agencies and book publicity to basically just spam podcasters like me, nobody’s doing a good job of it. Well, I’ve got my own top rated podcast. I’m friends with all these other top rated hosts. So I’ve got the relationships. I’ve been on over that time about 5060 podcasts. So I know what it is to be a guest. And I’ve interviewed over 150 high profile guests at that time. So why don’t I start my own podcast booking agency? And that’s basically how Gefen Media Group was born.

Mario Fachini [28:03]
And when did you start? Was it a year later?

Daniel Gefen [28:08]
So Gefen Media Group was, it’s been about three, just over three years, about three and a half years, I would say that we’ve been running. And, you know, the reason why we only work with authors now is because I realized that my clients that had books, they were the ones doing the best, they were getting the best results. Like I said before, because books just sell like hotcakes. Now, that doesn’t mean you have to have a book to get on podcasts. It just, it just helps. It’s better.

Mario Fachini [28:41]
It’s better. So let me pause you right there. Because you know you’re exclusively working with authors?

Daniel Gefen [28:47]
Correct. In my media agency, yes. My pod book platform. It’s open to anyone.

Mario Fachini [28:55]
And for anyone that’s listening. Daniel has a Gefen media group where, you know, you have to apply and qualify, but he can get you booked on the top rated shows. And pod Booker is the software where you can find people and connect with other show hosts, you’re doing it all on your own. It’s more of a do it yourself service.

Daniel Gefen [29:16]
Correct. Yeah, podbooker.com is pretty much a platform. So how did I come up with the idea what I realized this was about a year and a half ago, I realized that I was only serving a small segment of people, there was a small market of people that could afford to spend 1000s of dollars to hire an agency like mine to get on the top shows. But you know, most people can’t afford to hire an agency. And there are millions of people that want to get booked as a guest on podcasts. So how do they get on those shows? Right? There’s so many podcasts, how do you find them? How do you pitch to them? What do you do? And on the flip side, I’m only servicing you know the top 250 podcast hosts with guests, I’m supplying them with guests. But what about the other, you know, hundreds of 1000s of podcast hosts who are looking for guests, but don’t have a way of finding guests, because they’re not big enough for the agencies to be sending them guests. So you have these two markets that are not being served. And nobody at the time was serving them. And that’s why I had the idea for podbooker.com, which essentially, is a marketplace where you have two sides of the marketplace, you’ve got the hosts, and you’ve got their profiles, and then you’ve got the guests. And basically, as a guest, you can easily find a host and pitch them and get booked on the podcast. In fact, I believe that’s how we got booked. I think I got booked through a pod broker with you, or maybe not, actually no with you. I’ve had a relationship with you, before podbooker because I send you guests from my agency. But I’ve actually been booked on…

Mario Fachini [30:52]
In full transparency, we did it through pod back, because it’s awesome. And we did it that way. But yeah, we were already talking and knew each other prior.

Daniel Gefen [31:01]
right. But the pod book also just makes it easier as well, the booking process, because you don’t have seen us, yeah, you don’t have to go back and forth in email. It’s all done through the platform. And what’s really great about it, as well, as I’m going to ask you for a review. After this, hopefully, Mario, you’ll give me a nice review. And that review will go on my guest profile on pod Booker, which means that now anytime a host looks at my pod book or profile, they’ll see all of my reviews that I have from hosts, which again, doesn’t currently exist anywhere. If you go on lots of podcasts, you should be collecting reviews from those hosts. Because the more reviews you get, the more attractive you are as a guest to get on bigger shows. And so with pod books, you know, we’ve recreated that feature now. So you could do that easily.

Mario Fachini [31:51]
And I will say as both a guest and a host, because I love guest pod casting on other shows myself. If someone’s listening to this, and you have one, let me know. But as a host, I can relate to getting so many guests just pitching and this and that. And it’s like, you know, I enjoy this. And I love interviewing, I love talking and building relationships and learning and bringing it out for the audience and all this stuff. And I’d like to think it comes through. But what I don’t like is sifting through 100 names and numbers to go, which of the six of these are the good ones. So when I’m, I love that you have the reviews on there, because when I’m looking for people, I’ve told everyone to make it easy for me to say absolutely yes. Because the second I have to go Haaaa. And think about it. I’m already going, why don’t they stand out more to your point of Okay, cool. You’re an author, speaker, coach, you’ve won 15 Awards? Well, if you’re a civilian, that’s impressive. If you’ve got 4000 names and numbers of other authors, speaker CEOs in your phone, it’s par for the course. Yep. It’s the same reason I’ve said about dressing up when you’re at a business event. Why do I wear colorful ties? Why have I been doing this forever? Because when everyone else in the room is in a black and white suit? How do you stand out? If you’re the only one in the room you’re going to stand out? But how do you stand out on all these different levels? So unless I can say absolutely yes, without thinking about it, it’s probably a no. And I should never have to look in search of social media. And the second I do that I’m like, I will take it with a grain of salt and go, okay, maybe their PR rep didn’t do a good job with the one sheet or the sizzle reel or whatever, there can be people. And I’ve had him on the show who are really, really good. But it’s marketing and communication. And I have a sense for this. So I will look at the social but very, very rarely if you have to make the host dive in and turn this into if I get 100 pitches a week. I’m not going to take five or 10 minutes each one because now my job is just sifting through stuff. That’s all that’s a bunch of time I can be interviewing cool people. Yeah, so I’m glad that you made it easy on podbooker and for anyone listening if you’re looking to do more guest podcasting make it brain dead simple with the coolest thing you’ve ever done that no one else can say. Put it in the headline at the top of the one sheet because sometimes I look at your picture, the name of the one sheet, some accolades, and go wow, that’s a great headline this person sounds I can tell you know what you’re doing.

Daniel Gefen [34:32]
Yeah, and the other thing as well is what I found, again, you know, seeing hundreds and hundreds of BIOS, usually BIOS fit into they fall into two piles, right? And they fail because of either one of these two piles. The first pile is too vague. So the analogy I like to give is imagine you watch a movie trailer or Netflix you know trailer. So if it’s too vague, you’re not going to invest time in watching it because there’s just Too much content out there to consume. And so you’re just, you’re not even going to try to, like, look more into it. It’s like, if you didn’t get me, you didn’t get me next. The other mistake is there’s too much information, they’ve given away too much. Which means like, it’s as if I’ve watched the movie already. I don’t need to watch the movie now, you ever see that they see a movie trailer and you’re like, Well, thank you very much. That was a great movie. I’m not gonna, I don’t need to watch it now. Well, that’s a mistake people make in the bio is they give away, way too much. And then basically, I’ve, it’s as if I’ve already interviewed you, there’s nothing left to talk to you about. So what I do with my clients in the agency, is we use a lot of intrigue and curiosity, we tease the hosts, we dangle things, we go, oh, did you know this? Does this and this happen? And it’s like, and then, and we leave them hanging? And they’re like, well, then what? Like, what? Like, what is that about? I’m so cute. I need to know what that is. Right? So it’s, that’s, that’s, that’s the ideal buyer, right? And the ideal movie trailer is when you’re going, Oh, my God, I need to know what happens. I need to know what happened, I need to watch this. So that’s one thing. One tip I can kind of give in terms of when you’re pitching when you’re, when you’re reaching out with a bio. The other thing as well is the host want to know that you’re going to give them something of value besides for just the content, they want to know that you’re going to share the episode, they’re going to want to know that you listen to their their podcast, they’re going to want to know that you know, their audience, and why it’s going to be a good fit for their audience. There’s too many people that are just kind of going, Hey, you know, have me as a guest, because I’ve got a book and I’ve got this and it’s going to help me, me, me, me, me, me, me, you got to focus on what’s in it for them. hosts want to know that you’re going to provide quality content, and that you’re going to help them get more subscribers by sharing with your audience.

Mario Fachini [36:55]
That’s 100% true. And I even have a button on the form or checkbox there. I purposely added this in there. You know, what’s the reason you there’s millions of shows? Why do you want to go on expert authority effect interviews, and it’s like to add value to the audience to share my expertise. And I literally worded one as to be the 100 and first interview, and yet another batch of hundreds that I’m just doing because I’ve actually had people closer and I’m like, you actually got to be kidding me.

Daniel Gefen [37:25]
Get out, man. That’s crazy. Yeah.

Mario Fachini [37:28]
Do you want to add to my audience? Or do you just want to be self-serving? Basically, I could probably even put that on there. And someone would click it. Don’t be that person.

Daniel Gefen [37:37]
Yeah. Don’t be the guy that I had on my show. Once every single question I asked him, he said, well, on page 179 of my book, I answer that question. And I’m not kidding Mario. Every question, almost every question I asked him on page 46. I addressed that I talked about for Flip’s sake. Dude, this is not one long infomercial. Who trained you like what?

Mario Fachini [38:03]
I’m not gonna get that you got a book? Yeah, everyone’s gonna get it. Shut up and give us some value.

Daniel Gefen [38:09]
It was crazy. And I didn’t produce that episode. So the guy totally wasted his time and my time. It was horrific.

Mario Fachini [38:16]
Now, would you have ever said, well, maybe I should just end it here. And I’ll just buy the book and read it because…

Daniel Gefen [38:23]
Yeah, you know what? I was tempted. I was. I just have…

Mario Fachini [38:28]
So you didn’t produce it? I gotta I gotta be honest, I’ve, I’ve there hasn’t been any so far. I felt so bad. I just pulled them there with three. Let me ask you, what do you think? Do you look at it as this person’s really not prepared? I should have done a better job qualifying them. Or maybe this is to sharpen my chops as to how I can get around this real time? You know what I mean? When you’re in the interview, like right now, you’re pretty much at the demarcation line or whatever. It’s like, you’re past the point of no return. It’s like maybe let’s just see how good I am. And this is not going to be an easy interview for me, but it will make me a better host.

Daniel Gefen [39:09]
Yeah. That was one guest that I had, who was famous. And we just got off to a really bad start. I made a comment that he didn’t appreciate. And we kind of got into a bit of a bit of a fight, like a bit of an argument, you know, and then it just went totally downhill from there. So I didn’t produce that one. That was one example. There was another famous person I had and I’ll mention his name just because I published it, even though I was considering not publishing it. It was Robert Kiyosaki who is the famous author of Rich Dad, Poor Dad. So I interviewed him and it was a train wreck. Like the guy totally lost it on me like he went In same ad, because I pushed some buttons, that’s just my interviewing style. I like to kind of, you know, see how people react. It’s just kind of like a game for me. But it makes for entertaining interviews, of course. But with Robert, it was like, he just attacked like crazy. And unfortunately, you know, he kind of made himself look really bad. But it was one of the best episodes for my show, because of the amount of feedback that I got from my audience. It was insane. yeah.

Mario Fachini [40:36]
How do you, I gotta ask, because he’s been on my dream list. I’ve read dozens and dozens of his books. I love Robert, how did you get him?

Daniel Gefen [40:44]
He’s a good guy. I just think he just lost his plot on the podcast. How did I get him? I mean , it’s kind of the same way I got all the other guests that I’ve had some very big name guests. It’s a game, you’re playing the game. And when you know how to play the game, you know how to kind of, you know, play the game. Let’s put it that way. So how do you play the game? Well, one way is, if you can get one big guest on your show, then what you do is you then leverage that big named guest to get your next big name guest because usually what happens is with these sort of big name people, is they’re looking at, you know, instead of them looking into you, because it takes them time. They don’t have time. They’ll just look at who you’ve had on. So it’s like a club. Oh, you had Russell Brunson on your show. So like when I got Russell Brunson like I got a lot of the big internet marketing guys because I Oh of Russell Brunson. Wanna show Oh, you had Neil Patel. Like, oh, okay, so now all the big like, you know, SEO guys, they all know Neil Patel. So like, okay, right. So oh, you’ve had this guy, Tom, Bill, you and all these guys. So once you start getting some big named guests, then all the others kind of flock along, because then you just start name dropping, and then they’re just like, it’s all one big club. It’s one big game. The other thing as well is, once you produce a certain amount of episodes, you know, they take you more seriously, right? So like, once, you could say, you know, I’ve had, you know, over 100 episodes? I mean, most nice. You don’t I’m saying like most podcasts don’t do.

Mario Fachini [42:23]
I was gonna ask you. What’s that number? Is it really 100? Is there a second past 300 or five?

Daniel Gefen [42:30]
I mean, obviously, the bigger the number, the more likely they’re going to take you more seriously. But, as I said, like, most podcasts don’t last, right? Because people don’t have the patience and they don’t stick around. So if you’ve passed like your 100 episode mark, you’re in the top, whatever percent it’s not, there’s not that many in relation to the whole podcast space that have over 100 episodes. So then the longer you stick at it, the more you produce, the more likely you’re going to get big name guests. I’ll say something else. I think it’s more vanity than anything else. Because the truth of the matter is Robert Kiyosaki, and all these other big name guests that I had, they didn’t share the podcast. They don’t share podcasts with their audience, right? So you don’t get much in the way of more subscribers. Right? And, you know, yes, it looks good. And it’s a vanity play. Like I said, like, it’s great to name drop. But the biggest, like spikes that I got in my downloads was when I had a guest that wasn’t necessarily well known. But they had a big audience sort of in their space, like for them, and they shared it. So if someone has, let’s say, 10,000 email subscribers, and they’re very loyal followers, that’s 10,000 new people that you have potentially coming to listen to your podcast and subscribe. And they’re gonna share it because they’re not some big, you know, guy.

Mario Fachini [42:30]
Yeah, 5.8 million, 20 million.

Daniel Gefen [42:52]
Exactly. They’re not going to share it, because they’ve been on so many podcasts already, that they’re just not going to share every single podcast they’ve been on. So I think you have to be a little bit smart , and strategic. Also, like I said, getting on podcasts, you’re going to get a lot more subscribers, then producing episodes because every episode you produce, unless you’re spending a lot of money on promoting it. How else are you finding new audiences? Right, so the only way is two ways that I could see one is getting your guests to share. So you’ve got to have guests that are willing to share or be you gotta be going on other podcasts and getting those listeners to then go and follow you to listen to your own.

Mario Fachini [45:01]
I love that you’re sharing the behind the scenes because I found that I’ve had some big names on the show, and some of them have shared it. Some of them have not. But the biggest ones are, like you said, they have, let’s say, five to 25,000 in their audience, which is still a ton of people. I mean, they could be an author, speaker, coach, have their own mastermind community, whatever, they’re very thankful they would leave a rating and review on it. And they’re sharing it when it comes out. And the best thing I’ve had that I think is the real litmus test is three, six months later, they’re still sharing it. And some have even taken our own artwork that my team and I made to promote their events in different things.

Daniel Gefen [45:45]
Yeah. Yeah. You never know who’s gonna be your best ambassador. I mean, that’s the thing. It’s, you really don’t know. But there’s, there’s other advantages as well. Like, for example, when I had Les Brown on my show, he is such a humble giant, like, He’s huge, right? Most people have heard of him. They, you know, who Les Brown is, right? Yeah.

Mario Fachini [46:11]
So he’s also on my list of I’d love to have him on the show.

Daniel Gefen [46:14]
He was incredible. And you know what the beautiful thing about him is he even gave me his cell phone number. And he said, Daniel, you call me whenever you want, like, you know, and I was like, whoa, that’s huge, right? Imagine having direct access to someone like Les Brown like that. I mean, that just doesn’t happen. Right? That’s not the norm. That’s not the norm. So in a way, you know, even if Les Brown doesn’t necessarily share it with his audience, or add anything from that perspective, just having the relationship with that and being able to network with those types of people is incredible.

Mario Fachini [46:57]
I’ll say the same thing for speaking to the point of guesting on other podcasts and publishing a business book, by all means do both. But it’s cool when the biggest surreal moment I had was when some of the people that I looked up to, admired and respected are like I was learning from them. They were pitching to come on, or we’d be speaking at the same event. If you’re also if you’re listening, and you don’t speak, you should, because the stages and especially like you’re talking about the relationships, hey, let’s grab dinner with all the speakers afterwards. Or even just two or three of the speakers. It doesn’t need to be a speaker quote, dinner sanction, just say hey, you want to grab some food? Yeah. I mean, that’s, that’s magical.

Daniel Gefen [47:43]
Yeah, I think people just need to get themselves out there. I mean, it’s just, it’s, it’s really not difficult. I think the hardest part is just getting past your own self doubt, like that, that, at least for me, I’m just speaking about me. That’s been my number one obstacle, I think, in my journey, is just stop the negative thinking, like, oh, if I post this are people gonna be? You know, they’re gonna think this of me. They’re gonna think that of me like, Oh, I don’t know if I should do this. Because, I mean, when I first started my podcast, I listened back to it. And I’m like, Oh, my God, I sound like a squeaky cat. Like, I can’t produce that. So I really thought that yes, I really did. I hated the sound of my voice. I couldn’t, I really couldn’t hear it. I had to switch it off. And I thought, how am I going to produce, you know, a podcast, when I hate the sound of my own voice? How am I going to get on other people’s podcasts when I just really hate the sound of my own voice. But the more I pushed myself to just do it anyway, I kind of just did it anyway, I would start to listen more and more and then I got to a point where I was okay with my voice. And now, as weird as it sounds to say this, I actually like the sound of my voice.Sounds nice to me.

Mario Fachini [49:07]
You know, scientifically, most people don’t like how they sound right. It has something to do with the inner ear and this and that. Yeah, the other thing, but I felt the same way too. Yeah. Especially when I go back and edit the recordings. Yeah. It’s like, Oh, my gosh, what was I talking about? Here? Everyone else has given you ratings and reviews that they love it. Yeah. Stop. Stop the nonsense.

Daniel Gefen [49:30]
Yeah, dude, how many times I listened to myself and I said, Why do I say the words you know, so many times? You know, why do I do that? Why am I doing that and and your self critic always will come out. It will always come out to just try to get you and it’s just noise. Just filter it out. drown it out.

Mario Fachini [49:54]
None of it really matters. One of my favorites is. So now that we’re talking about such and such, like I said, so so many times, it was like, why am I doing this? And I remember posting early on, it was like, I posted, how do you get your guests to stop breathing?

Daniel Gefen [50:12]
That’s really funny.

Mario Fachini [50:14]
Because I was referring to the editing of the audio. And it was just like, Oh, that sounds really bad.

Daniel Gefen [50:21]
Sounds terrible. But it’s a great title. Because, you know, people will definitely listen to that episode, how to get my guests to stop breathing.?

Mario Fachini [50:28]
But the point is, it doesn’t need to be perfect. People, what do you want to say? You want you want it to, people when you’re talking to them in real life they’re not?

Daniel Gefen [50:43]
Yeah. So let me tell you something interesting. Um, I might. So my first podcast was, can I pick your brain that was very sort of polished. I had a professional mic. And, you know, I try to make it soundproof, and all of that stuff, all that, which is all the jazz, right? But then who would do that? Yeah, who the heck right? Then I was walking in the park in the morning, on a daily basis, because when I wake up in the morning, I get lots of thoughts coming. I don’t know about you, but I get tons of ideas. Like, it’s almost as if, when I went to sleep, my brain went on hold. It’s like when you get up and you need a pee really badly, because you haven’t peed for like eight hours straight. So your bladder is going to get hurt, right? So the same thing with your thoughts, like all the ideas are kind of like being held back and waiting to be expressed. And then you wake up? And it’s just like, Well, wait. It’s like, shut up, my God. So what I used to do is I used to go out to the park, and I would walk around the park talking to myself, because I would need to express the ideas vocally. That’s just the way that I express it. That’s the way that I’m able to sort of think about it. But I didn’t want to look like a crazy, weird, psychopath. So I put my headphones in pretending that I was on a phone call. So people thought that I was just talking to people on a phone call. Well, one day, I’m having this conversation with myself. And it usually lasts about, you know, 10 to 15 minutes every morning. And suddenly this weird thought came to my mind. You know, I should have recorded that. That was pretty good. That was an interesting conversation. Like I had some really good insights there. But then I’m like, Nat, come on. Like, I can’t record a podcast while I’m walking in the park. People’s dogs are barking, there’s birds singing. It’s like, crap, audio, like, come on. I can’t do that. But then I decided, you know what, let me just see what happens. So the next day, I just literally hit record on my phone. No microphone, no fancy schmancy thing. There was even some guy mode, lowering them mowing the lawn, okay. And at the end, I played it back to my wife. And I said, Honey, what do you think about this? And she listened to it. Poor woman. She’s listened to so many of my blinking episodes of poor women yet to go through all that. You know, it’s like when I wrote my book, she had to read all of the drafts and all of their Can you read this out loud? I want to hear it back. My wife’s amazing, by the way. Anyway, we have five kids, and she’s incredible. She takes care of everyone, including I’m like the sixth kid. Anyway, she listens to it. And she’s my number one fan. And she goes, I love it. I’m like, Are you serious? She’s like, I really think you should do this, you should do this podcast. And I said, but it’s like, you can hear the birds. And she’s like, I love the fact that you hear the birds in the background. It doesn’t people don’t necessarily want to be the most polished professional, they just want content. And you’re giving great content. And so that became the Daniel Gefen show, I did over 100 episodes of me talking to myself in a park with all the sound effects that go along with it. And that just goes to show that once you do something over and over again, you get to the point where you stop caring about all the you know, questions and doubts of you know, quality just put it out there. Just go just do it.

Mario Fachini [54:18]
Yeah, because one and a half in my numbers are one and a half. For the one and a half people that are gonna say something. The ones who matter don’t care, and the ones who care don’t matter whoever said that.

Daniel Gefen [54:32]
Can you just define what half a person looks like to you? I’m just curious.

Mario Fachini [54:36]
I don’t know. But I’ve done this with clients with business with everything. I actually like stats and metrics and stuff. You need to be able to measure them especially when it comes to the profits and things but I was thinking about it one day for a speech I was giving to an audience and I was like, What did it really take? How many people really went from pletely nuts where the business deal or the Gaster, whatever was just the worst case scenario, and I looked back I go, man, it’s that one and a half percent that stops people from even getting to the 100. And at the end of the day, yeah, I’ll take the other 98.5, 99. You know what I mean? Like, to your point of, let’s do it perfectly. And I, you know, I, I’d like to think I have a well produced show. But I’ve also calmed down a little bit with making the intricacies because it’s like, I can take the same amount of time and have another 100, great VIP guests. Or I can polish this thing to a point where I could get a Grammy or an Emmy for it. Which one’s more advantageous, and there’s a fine balance of, from a business standpoint, I’ll say, dude, do another 100 episodes. Instead of, you know, if you’re gonna do a 13, Episode, season premiere of a show, then do a show. But if you’re doing a podcast, I do have to remind myself, it’s a podcast, there’s an audio experience and a video experience, but calm down, because it’s better to have another 100 episodes then have 12 of them. You know, I can’t even imagine thinking back on Yeah, I got 12 really great ones. And they’d be phenomenal. But guess what, now I have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of them. Yeah. And I’ll take that any day. Because they’re all still pretty good. They’re all up in the 90, 95 percentile?

Daniel Gefen [56:36]
Yeah. I think just the goal should just be to ship it. You know, just just get it out as fast as you can. It doesn’t matter how ugly it is at the beginning. I mean, I think if you’re going to polish Polish later, like first just see if there’s interest, see if people want for sure what you have to share. And then you can always polish and improve and perfect but too big that just…

Mario Fachini [57:03]
I love telling people to start where they’re at. because there are too many. Likewise, too many people get stuck. They won’t even get started. because everything’s not perfect. Well, you didn’t even start yet. You didn’t even know what you did wrong to improve on yet. Yeah. And I gotta be honest, I love guesting on audio shows and I’m a little bit jealous of everyone else who does stuff not as complex as me. Yeah, because I’ll tell you what I’ve done. It’s so relaxing to just go, oh, the mics on and that’s all I need to worry about.

Daniel Gefen [57:36]
The first business I started, I had a competitor and I kept a very close eye on him. I was always checking in and seeing what he was doing. And here’s the difference between him and me. I built a six figure business. My first business was a six figure a year business. His was a seven figure business, we were in the same exact market, we’re selling the same services, same thing. The difference between him and me. Everything I did had to be perfected. So the website had to look, you know, beautiful. The logo had to be perfect. every article that, you know, we wrote on the blog had to, you know, just be perfect. This guy had the crappiest ugliest website. Everything looked so crap. I mean, he wrote blog posts that he got done in India, that didn’t even make sense in English. But it didn’t matter because his SEO was great because he’s, for every one article that I put out, he put out 10. Okay. He didn’t care. He had microsites meaning he had like five or six different crappy websites, but they serve different parts. I had one beautiful website where he was making seven figures a year. I was doing six figures. And the difference between him and me. I was pretty, he was ugly, but he was making much more money. And I learned from that, that you just got to you just got to be scrappy, sometimes. You can always make it look good later. But the main thing is, if you’ve got something to share, if you can help people, then you owe it to yourself and you owe it to others to get out there and share it. My, I wish my grandfather wrote a book, you know, talking about book publishing. If you asked me, who? Who do you admire the most? It’s no one I’ve interviewed. It’s my grandfather. My grandfather’s the one person that I wish there was a book about him. I wish he would produce a podcast. I wish he went on a podcast and spoke about his story. I wish he wrote his story in a book. He was no longer with us, unfortunately. But he was in 18 concentration camps 18 mile from the age of 13 years old. For five years he was in, in, in concentration camps. He was at one point shot and buried alive. The bullet hit him in the shoulder, he pretended to be dead. Because he knew that if he moved, they would kill him. So that’s one story that he shared. He didn’t share many stories about his experience. But the few stories that we know are unbelievable. I mean, he was hung twice. So they tried to hang him. And then he said, The is a Jewish prayer that you say, Shema Israel, which says if they believe they’re there, they’re going to die. And the sirens went off, though, it was a false alarm. And he was able to escape and run into the forest. And then they hunted him down with dogs. They brought him back and he tried to hang him a second time. And for the second time, he said the prayer, and the sirens went off for the second time, in his time, it was the real deal. And he was liberated. You know, another story he shared was that he was about 10 feet from the gas chambers, standing in line. And a Nazi soldier was standing next to him outside the line. And the horse was desiccated, on the Nazis boot. And this Nazi soldier turned around to the person who was closest to him, which happened to me, my grandfather, and he said, Get out here, you dirty jewing and clean this up. So my grandfather basically cleaned up the crap on the boot. And then the soldier said, All right, go basically he let him, he let him go out of the line. And so my grandfather was saved by horse poop, pretty much. And the thing that inspires me about him is that when he left when he was liberated, his whole family was murdered. So he had no family. He had no friends. He had no connections, he had not a penny to his name. He didn’t even speak the language. He had nothing. And we’re not talking about someone who has bad WiFi connection, or, you know, they just don’t have Yeah, we’re talking about someone who had literally nothing. Most people would give up their life at that point. But he didn’t, he kept going. And he rebuilt his life. And he built a family and built a successful business. And he basically spent his whole life dedicated to helping and serving people, gave away most of his money, he became a multimillionaire, but lived in a small apartment his whole entire life, and gave away most of his money to charity.

Mario Fachini [1:02:41]
Sounds like a great guy. Yeah.

Daniel Gefen [1:02:44]
But he never wrote a book. And there’s not one podcast that I can listen to that he’s on. And so I challenge everyone listening to this, don’t just do it, for you do it for your future generations. Because guess what you’re leaving a legacy, your grandchildren, your great grandchildren, your great great grandchildren, they’re going to want to know who you were. And imagine, now my great grandchildren can listen to podcasts that I was on that I shared my story that I shared what I do. For the next who knows how many years, I’m going to keep going out and sharing and talking about my journey. And, you know, for years to come for generations to come, you’re going to leave behind a legacy for your future generations.

Mario Fachini [1:03:32]
That’s powerful. You got me thinking of my dad and different people. I lost him a few years ago, and one of the main major reasons I started the show, but thank you for sharing.

Daniel Gefen [1:03:48]
Yeah, thank you for giving me a platform to share.

Mario Fachini [1:03:54]
I’m gonna skip a couple of things. We’re gonna thank our sponsor, I have one more thing I do want to do. And you made me change the question about five minutes ago. So we’ll come back for this imperfect action round, but I do this all the time. It’s the Wheel of Whatever. And I know exactly what I’m going to ask you. Well, it ended up right where it needed to be. My question for you, Daniel, is if you could ask your grandpa anything. What would it be?

Daniel Gefen [1:04:32]
Oh, man. Gosh. Yeah, I know. I just want to do justice to it. It’s a really, really tough question. It really is because I never I haven’t thought about it. That’s another thing I love about going on podcasts. By the way, you get asked questions that you never would have thought of. And I’ve grown so much as a person just getting on podcasts, just being asked questions like this, it really pushes you to discover parts of yourself that you didn’t even know about. I love it.

Mario Fachini [1:05:18]
I could relate. I’ve had the same thing happen to me. And it was just like, you know, I come on all hey, by the end, I’m like, what just happened?

Daniel Gefen [1:05:32]
Um, yeah, I think I would ask him one question. How did you manage to love yourself, and to love God and love people after what you went through? Because I can’t imagine, I can’t even begin to imagine the pain and the suffering that he went through. And if I put myself in that place, even for a second, you know, it just would, it would just give me doubt in humanity, like, how can humans do this? How could God allow humans to do this? And how can I love myself because I just feel so like an animal, I’m just being treated worse than an animal, and I’ve done nothing wrong. And so how do you find love again, when you’ve just been totally stripped of it? And I know he did, because every time you would see him, he had a huge smile on his face. And he was a religious, devout, Jew, his whole life. He prayed to God every single day. And so my question would be how?

Mario Fachini [1:07:19]
That’s a great question. I’m not even going to try and answer that. I actually want to ask you what you think he would say?

Daniel Gefen [1:07:34]
Oh, man, that’s cool. Man, I can’t answer for him, I could only say, I, my belief is the world was created with love. And part of that love was the ability for man to choose to make choices, free will. So unfortunately, with that, you have a double edged sword. On the one hand, it’s a tremendous power to do good. And on the other hand, the same, you know, the other side of the sword is that you have tremendous power to do evil. And so if God was to remove that free will, that would go against the world that he created, which is a world which was of love, because love is giving you the right to choose. If my son does something that I don’t agree with. It’s not loving, to remove that choice for him. I’m not being a loving father, if I remove his free will to choose even now It hurts like hell, when he makes the wrong choices in life. It hurts like hell, because I love him. But loving him is also letting go and allowing him to make the decisions that he thinks is the right thing at this time, even though I know it’s wrong. But he has to go through and he has to learn it. And he might be hurting other people as well. Now, if I can protect other people, then of course, I’m going to do that and if I could protect him from harming himself, and of course I will do that. But to a certain degree, real Love is the ability to allow someone to make their own choices. That’s the best I’ve got right now.

Mario Fachini [1:09:46]
Well, it’s a very truthful answer. And I believe it to be true too. Because if you didn’t have the free will, then it’s basically robots you don’t you don’t have that capacity. You know, I could equate it to a leader. I don’t even think it’s a horrible term, a boss, because there’s people who have positional leadership, and you listen to them just because they’re the boss, but you might not like anything they stand for. It’s just that they’re your boss, then there’s the other people who you follow, whether they’re your boss or not, because of what they stand for. If you’re forcing someone, if you’re forcing someone to do something, it’s not the same. Yeah, I think if you keep that love in your heart with everyone, regardless of the situations, you don’t poison yourself, despite how evil the world gets around you. Yeah, exactly. Like that. I am going to try and find a segue off of this, because it got pretty deep. Well, I enjoyed it,

Daniel Gefen [1:11:00]
You know what I want to give you credit for, though, you know, what makes a really great host. And this applies to a guest as well. What makes a great host is someone that’s able to let go and be in the flow of the conversation. And even if you’ve got an agenda, and I know a lot of hosts, they have a certain format, and they’ve got a certain structure, and they’ve got certain questions they want to ask, and there’s a sir. But it’s so important to just allow the conversation to flow, and not hold on too tightly to your agenda and where you want to go. I’ve, for example, I’ve shared that story before on a podcast and the host, I kid you not. The next question was, Daniel, What book would you recommend to our listeners? And it was just like, are you? Are you serious like that? It’s so just disingenuine, and it’s not natural. to just go to the next question on your list. It’s so unnatural. And if you want to…

Mario Fachini [1:12:21]
I’d say hurtful because now I know you’re talking about something that’s for me. You know, there’s times I’ve opened up about things. And there’s other times I’m like, there’s no way I’m gonna answer, you know, not because I’m afraid or I feel bad, but I can just tell it’s not going to be respected. And I’m like, I’m not gonna waste my time.

Daniel Gefen [1:12:42]
Yeah. The reason why I don’t go there, meaning I try not to take it personally, like I don’t feel hurt by it is because I understand that they’re just, it’s amateur hosting, they just don’t know how to deal with it, you are a pro. And therefore you’re able to comfortably allow yourself to segue away, and go down a different rabbit hole. Because that’s the natural thing to do. And the respectable thing to do, but, and this is the same thing as a guest. If you want to be a great guest, you’ve got to learn to go with the flow, let go of your agenda, have an overview of where you’d like to go as a host, and have an overview of where you’d like to go as a guest. But let go of the journey to get there. Enjoy the journey, have an adventure. And those are the best podcasts. Those are the best episodes.

Mario Fachini [1:13:56]
Yeah, I’m honestly thoroughly enjoying this. And I’m not worried about the flow or skipping or adding or whatever. I just realized I want to honor and respect you and your grandfather and truly learn more, but I don’t want to press too hard and be like, oh, let’s dive 15 levels deeper. Like you know what I mean? Yeah, so thank you for sharing and being vulnerable and sharing it with us because you could very easily just say you know, I’m not going to because I know I’ve done it flat out.

Daniel Gefen [1:14:33]
Yeah. Why it’s a good sign again, because I wouldn’t share it on any podcasts. There are plenty of podcasts I’ve been on that I actually wouldn’t share because it’s like you said you didn’t feel it was the right time. It wasn’t say it’s it’s you know with you, I felt like it was a natural. I feel comfortable and natural to be able to share something like that. And that’s a great you know, sign that you’re doing something right as a host. When your guests allow…

Mario Fachini [1:15:12]
Appreciate that.

Daniel Gefen [1:15:13]
When your guests are able to get vulnerable, that is the best. It’s honestly the best sign.

Mario Fachini [1:15:20]
Well, I definitely don’t take it lightly. And I do appreciate you for sharing because I’m glad you aren’t doing different get different guesting, and your kids and grandkids will be able to because I’ve had the exact same thought, there’s people I’m like, let’s publish your book for you. Because it’s like, I don’t even care if you use it for business or not, your story just needs to be told.

Daniel Gefen [1:15:43]
Yeah. And the problem is, most people don’t think that their story matters, enough to be told. And I think that’s also a lie that we tell ourselves.

Mario Fachini [1:15:55]
While we’re on the vulnerable, transparent, I don’t bring this up in every episode. But the whole reason I started the show, God gave me the vision for it. And it’s to exponentially elevate the identity of humanity. There’s too many people that are just believing all this crap that’s out there. They don’t feel they don’t have a platform, they don’t feel they’re worth anything, they don’t feel they have a message. And it’s the farthest thing from the truth.

Daniel Gefen [1:16:20]
If we knew what our words can do, for another human being, we would just give you a real life example. I remember about two years ago, I got an email, a random email from someone who listened to my podcast. And I had tears rolling down my face. When I read this email, He said that he was considering taking his life. that week. He was literally preparing to take his own life. And he stumbled upon one of my episodes and listened to that episode. And he said that it inspired him so much that he’s going to turn his life around. And he ended up writing a book and starting his own podcast. I mean, can you imagine if I didn’t produce that great episode, like, that’s crazy, that we have that power? Do we have that?

Mario Fachini [1:17:26]
And especially the reasoning of well, I don’t have the right mic, I’ll just do it in a few weeks.

Daniel Gefen [1:17:31]
Yeah. That’s the kind of responsibility that we have, in a way. It’s a duty. If you have a sight that you can share that’s going to help somebody out and you don’t share it, then. It’s almost like an injustice. It’s irresponsible. It’s irresponsible not to when human beings need you. And when I say you, I’m talking to you as an individual person listening to this, that’s questioning yourself, there are people out there that need you. And why you because you are the person that they’re going to relate to? Why does the world need another book? Or why does the world need another thing? Because somebody out there relates to you personally, there’s something about your style, the way you talk, who you are, your background, your experiences, specifically, you, they’re gonna connect. And you can help those people.

Mario Fachini [1:18:39]
In only a way that you can, right. Wow. Well, thank you for the insight on that, and sharing everything you have. We’re going to thank the sponsor and come back with the Imperfect Action Round.

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Mario Fachini [1:19:12]
And we are back with the Imperfect Action Round. Daniel, are you ready to take imperfect action?

Daniel Gefen [1:20:31]
Oh, yeah, baby.

Mario Fachini [1:20:34]
Three rapid fire questions and answers. The first one is what is the fastest path to the profits?

Daniel Gefen [1:20:42]
The fastest past the path to the profits. Hmm, interesting. I mean, this is going to be an obvious one to get booked as a guest on a podcast like now.

Mario Fachini [1:20:53]
Okay. Number two, what is the biggest problem you see your prospects making and the fastest way for them to fix it?

Daniel Gefen [1:21:03]
Getting too bogged down by the details. And the best way to fix it is just to take action, imperfect action. And the more imperfect action you take, the more you’re going to learn to refine what you do.

Mario Fachini [1:21:21]
Number three, what is the best way to maximize customer lifetime value?

Daniel Gefen [1:21:28]
invest in yourself. Because when you invest in yourself and you become better at what you do, then you’re going to be more valuable to your clients.

Mario Fachini [1:21:41]
Very good. What are a couple one through six books that you’d recommend in the expert authority world?

Daniel Gefen [1:21:49]
Gosh, okay, Napoleon Hill has to be up there. Right Think and Grow Rich, big fan of that book. You can’t read it enough. A New Earth is another one by Eckhart Tolle. Life changing, grab it. Don’t think about it. Just get it. And then there’s an unknown book. I don’t think most people have heard of this. It’s called Awareness. What’s the name? Anthony de Mello. His name’s Anthony de Mello. He was a Baptist priest, I believe, or some sort of oh, no, Jess wick priest, Jesuit priest. Unbelievable. Incredible. Just incredible. In general, I recommend books that were written, like, more than 100 years ago, because the last 100 years, it’s just crap. Sorry, it’s just you just know.

Mario Fachini [1:22:49]
I agree. I’ve said that. I’ve said the same thing for ages. It’s like finding ones from the turn of the century. Because, you know, when it’s all how did people do what they did 100 years ago, without all the advantages without the internet without all the communication? If you pulled it off around then.

Daniel Gefen [1:23:05]
yeah, then you know what you’re doing? Yeah, it was also a charter to write a book back then today. You can write a book in three days, you know, I mean, it’s not, but substance could be three days worth. So, whereas back then, like, they really poured their whole life experience, and then research into it. I mean, you’re just better off. It’s just like music. If you want good music, listen to music from 50 years ago, 100 years ago, whenever. If you want good music.

Mario Fachini [1:23:43]
I definitely get what you’re saying. Yeah. Well, those are great recommendations. I appreciate you for those. Got one to ask, where would you like people to learn more?

Daniel Gefen [1:23:55]
Well, I would highly recommend people to sign up the podbooker.com. It’s free to join. You can if you’ve got your own podcast, you could set up your own podcast profile, it will take you literally a minute to set that up. And if you want to get booked on podcasts, then set up your guest profile, it’s free to set it up. It’ll probably take you three minutes. So if you’ve got three minutes of your life that you want to invest in your future, then I highly recommend going to pod broker.com and signing up and setting up your profiles.

Mario Fachini [1:24:31]
Excellent. Well, I’ll make sure there’s links in the on your show notes page on EAInterviews.com as well for all of those. Daniel, thank you again so much. It’s been a pleasure.

Daniel Gefen [1:24:41]
Thank you so much for having me on.

Mario Fachini [1:24:44]
All right, expert authority world. We have another great episode here today. I’ll see you tomorrow. Have a great day. God bless.

Sponsor – Free Business Book Publishing Course [1:24:52]
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www.EAInterviews.com [1:25:26]
Hey, thanks for listening to today’s episode. I hope you got a lot out of it. I know I sure did. If you haven’t done so already, I invite you to subscribe to the show. And also be sure to check out EAInterviews.com for complete show notes, the full interview video experience links to the resources we mentioned in more. Have a blessed day and I’ll see you tomorrow.