The 7 Myth’s of Systemization with Host of the Business Systems Simplified Podcast, TEDx Speaker, & Founder & Author of SYSTEMology® David Jenyns on Episode #0175

Intro [0:00]

EA Interviews Episode 175. Inspiration, transformation, success stories, and the Imperfect Action Round seven days a week. Join Mario Fachini for today’s Expert Authority Effect Interview. 

Mario Fachini [0:13]

All right. Expert Authority World, I have David Jenyns today. And he is the CEO of SYSTEMology, author, speaker, TEDx speaker. And I am excited because so many people talk about systemization. And it’s one of my favorite things to teach my clients and audiences. And he’s built an entire company around it. And not only has he done that, he also hired a CEO, fired himself, moved to the beach. And we’re going to be talking about the seven myths of systemization. And I’m excited to also ask him, I think, he’s either worked with or Michael Gerber, the author of The E-Myth Revisited is or was his client. But I see a testimonial and I want to get the answer to that. So if you want to have a business that works for you and you don’t have to work for it, we’re going to get these questions answered and more right after we thank our sponsor. 

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Mario Fachini [1:27]

Here he is ladies and gentlemen, Mr. David Jenyns. David, how are you doing today? 

David Jenyns [1:31]

Fantastic. Thank you for having me. Mario Fachini [1:33]

I am so excited to have you here because so many people I know in Expert Authority World, they’re all entrepreneurs. They want to have this business. And I would also say the aspirations are million or multimillion dollar business. Everyone wants to grow a big empire and have the systemization and everything run perfectly and just all kinds of stuff you hear about and you think that’s the case. Only to find out it’s not. How are you doing it so successfully with so many companies? 

David Jenyns [2:03]

The biggest thing I think is just challenging a lot of the myths and beliefs that people have around systemization. There’s definitely a lot of baggage that comes with the idea of systemizing your business. And I don’t think I’ve ever had a discussion with a business owner where they’ve said that they’re not important. Everybody knows they’re important. Everybody knows that systems and processes are critical for growing your business beyond the founder. And the biggest challenge seems to be then when you mentioned the idea of systems, all of these things bubble up. People think, “Another systemized person. Or systems remove the creativity in business. Or I need to create the systems. Or that I’m going to need some complex software.” So the biggest thing that we do is kind of recognize that a lot of these are just false beliefs that no one’s – a lot of people have not tested. So it’s about specifically identifying those and then working to bust those and then giving someone a framework on how to systemize their business. 

Mario Fachini [3:02]

What would you say is the biggest myth that you come across? 

David Jenyns [3:05]

The biggest myth is – there’s quite a few. The one that jumps out would be the one that the business owner needs to be the person who creates the systems. Because business owners oftentimes been visionary people, they’re the founder, they create their business to solve the problem that they saw in the world. They’re often quick thinkers, problem solvers, they move quickly. And what ends up happening is they get really good at doing everything themselves. And as their team grows, they become the knight in shining armor that always solves the problem. Whenever a client has an issue, you know, the staff goes to them and they are. “Yeah. That’s all right. I know how to fix this or that.” So they’re constantly putting out these fires. But then that reinforces the idea that they need to be the person that is solving every single problem. And then they think, “Oh, well when it comes to systemization, I need to be the person who now writes the systems and the processes because, you know, I’m the business owner. I know how everything’s done. And I can do it to the best standard. Therefore, I must be the person that creates the systems.” And then the problem there is like everybody, they’re just too busy. Systems are important, but not urgent, so they never get around to it. So that’s probably the biggest myth that needs to be busted that the business owner needs to be the person creating the systems. 

Mario Fachini [4:26]

It sounds to me like that also creates the bottleneck that everything rises and falls on them. 

David Jenyns [4:32]

One hundred percent. The biggest thing once a business has been around – usually, it’s once you’ve been around for a few years and you’ve got a bit of traction, you’ve got very clear on the problem that you solve, the target audience that you serve, and you’re getting the runs on the board, you’re getting great clients, they’re giving you good feedback. But then you start to max out your capacity. And the business owner starts to then be – it’s almost like they’re spinning plates or, as the analogy, you get to that bottleneck. Everything goes through them. And there’s really no way to move through that other than removing the bottleneck. And it’s such a challenge. And it’s most business owners don’t make that leap. But it’s almost like a bridge that the business owner ends up getting to. And either they stay on one side of the bridge or they don’t – sorry. They stay on one side of the – yes – stay on one side of the bridge or they don’t. They cross over on us. So the key is to make that cross. Because otherwise you will forever be the bottleneck in your business. And that’s the result, too, often for most business owners. 

Mario Fachini [5:38]

It’s reminded me of this – I believe it was a QuickBooks commercial maybe a decade ago. And it said in the show to local business owner near the phone, and it said, annoying when it rings, frustrating when it doesn’t. 

David Jenyns [5:54]

Exactly. Right. And the business side, it’s almost like they go in this loop on chasing to get the work, and win the work, and then they’re doing the work, and then they get the work done. And then they need to chase more work and do the work and get it done. And it’s just this cycle that traps them. And it’s funny because the business owner, when they start a business, they’re looking for freedom often. They think, “Oh, yes. I can do the thing. You know, I’m a hairdresser, therefore, I can run a hairdressing business.” And they start the business thinking, “Well, I’m going to get this freedom and I’m going to have control.” And then they start it and then they get the exact opposite of what it was that they were seeking. They build a business that is so dependent on them, that they can’t even take, you know, a day off here or there or, you know, they’re working in the weekends, or early mornings, late nights just to get everything done. Because there’s just so much to be done. And that’s the biggest challenge. 

Mario Fachini [6:52]

Yeah. I was actually on another episode was Scott Reib. I was saying, I remember when I started my business people go what do you enjoy more being 10, 20 years into your business or starting it? And I go, they both have their pros and cons. Because when you’re starting, you got a clean slate. Or when you launch a book, or start a podcast, or do anything for the first time, it’s like, nothing can go wrong, because the only direction is forward. You haven’t done enough to screw enough of it up. It’s like, do whatever and it’s so freeing. But in my personal example, I’ve been doing this full time since ’08. I had no clients. Well, you need clients. So I got 12 in, like, the first six weeks. But now you have to fulfill on those, and customer service, and PR, and all these different things. And it’s like, you know, you get to a point where you grow into hundreds and hundreds of clients like now. And it’s like there’s so many things going on, you have to remember to prioritize and go, “I want to reach out to the existing ones. I want to bring in new business.” Because you can just get to this point and then get stuck again, where you’re on the Wheel of Whatever of just doing things that are sucking up your time but may or may not be adding to the bottom line because there’s no systems in place. 

David Jenyns [8:11]

Yeah. And it’s about progressing through the stages of business. Because you do. You have to go through each of the different stages. The key is just not to get stuck in a particular stage. And when you first get started up, and you’re in startup mode, that level one, you are getting things off the ground, you are figuring out what works, you’re winning clients. That’s where it feels really creative. And the business owner loves it because they’re able to use all of their creative power and juices and that really gets a business owner going. Then the business progresses, and you start to get the runs on the board, and the business starts to grow, and you’re getting good frequent clients. And then it almost gets into this repeating rhythm where you’re doing the same thing day out and day in. And for a lot of business owners, if they get stuck there, that drains their entrepreneurial life force, what really gets them going. And what you want to do is when you get to that level, you start to systemize. You get it so that the business functions without you so that it can deliver your core product and service without key person dependency. And once you get to that level, then that really opens things up and allows the business owner to move outside of the business. And almost it’s that classic thing of working on it rather than in it, which means they’re solving bigger problems. They’re being more creative. And they reignite Xthat love for business that they have. And what actually got them started. And that comes back to love. And that’s really what I’m about is helping business owners cross that bridge and start to step out of those operations. 

Mario Fachini [9:52]

I am so glad you’re talking about this. Let’s dive into other myths because in the beginning you said there was a couple of them. And when I asked for your biggest one, what are some of the others? Take us down the rabbit hole of your experience, because I know what I’ve experienced. I know I’ve helped my own clients through. But I know there’s probably dozens I don’t even know about. And neither does Expert Authority World and I want to solve them form today, so they don’t have to go through them down the future. 

David Jenyns [10:22]

One of the big ones that pops up as well, for someone who they read The E-Myth, they read Traction or Scaling Up or Built to Sell, there’s a lot of books in the space that get people excited about systems. And then it comes time to actually doing it. And that’s where I feel like most of the work that’s out at the moment, there’s nothing that really solves and shows the business owner how to systemize. To actually what is step one, step two, step three, what are the mission critical systems. So when they try and then struggle one of the big ones that I hear is, “Oh, yeah. I created the systems but my staff didn’t follow them anyway. So what’s the point of creating a system if I can’t get my staff to follow them?” And it’s about busting that myth. It has to do with understanding that you need to present it in a certain way and have the team understand what is the benefit to them individually for systemizing. Because there is really some huge upside potential for your team by systemizing. They can go on a holiday and not feel like they need to be checking their emails while they’re on leave. Or they can move up the ranks in your business because they can systemize certain parts of their task, give it to other team members, or lower cost team members and then that makes them more valuable to the business now, because they can work on higher value tasks. So it’s all about framing it for the staff that really helps to solve that problem. And understanding that A players, they love to know how to win at your business, how to win the game. And see systems and processes is a great way to articulate for them, “Hey, these are the rules. When you do these things to this standard in your Excel, you shine in our business.” And then that, again, helps you move up the ranks and get a better position within the business. So that idea of the team won’t follow systems and processes has a lot to do with the way that it’s presented to the team. But there’s a bunch of others. And another big one I like talking about is the idea that you need to systemize like McDonald’s. Everybody thinks when they think of, you know, a systemized business, the poster child is McDonald’s. And they think I need to systemize like McDonald’s. And I need to systemize every facet of the business down to the nth degree so that I can hire a 15 year old to come into my business and who can do that task. But the truth is, McDonald’s has been systemizing for 60 years. And here you are just getting started and you’re trying to do it like an absolute elite athlete who has been training their whole life. What you need to think about is where did McDonald’s get started systemizing. And systemize, like they did 60 years ago. You think about the minimum viable product. So that’s another big myth, thinking that they have to be perfect. Or you need to engineer. The systems just right until they get put into place. You just want to get the minimum viable product. You get it in and rolling. And it’s not a one and done thing. You don’t systemize your business and then you’re done. It’s a change in the business culture. It’s a change in the way that you approach things. And once that happens, that kind of changes the course of your business completely. 

Mario Fachini [13:43]

That is a very good point. Because when you said McDonald’s is basically the gold standard, not the golden arch standard, but I was smirking because I’ve used them for an example for years. And I think it’s just so well known worldwide, globally, and everything. But it’s a good point because do you want a 15 year old doing every facet of your business? I’d say for most businesses, no. But when it’s simple enough, you can get people in that place. I think that’s the bigger picture to go, “Hey, I can give this to someone other than me. Maybe it requires a little bit training.” And I like what you said, maybe it’s the positioning. And those are the things to consider. Because so many people just – you know, when I’m helping people publish their business books, we kind of have to systematize their thoughts – no. We don’t kind of have to. We absolutely 100 percent unequivocably have to take their expertise from their head and turn them into chapters. And for courses, they’re called modules. And you can’t just randomly talk about the stuff. There has to be a system and process in place. And so many people find even that difficult. And I’m thinking, “If you can’t do this, how are you -” you know, like audiences who are like, “Well, that sounds difficult.” How do you plan on systematizing for you team? I wanted to ask, do you have a secret way or the best way should you give your team a 48 page booklet, should you make a video, should you have a meeting after meeting? What’s your secret to it? What have you found what works best to systematize? 

David Jenyns [15:17]

It’s finding the combination. You want excellent staff and then you want to give them guide rails that they can kind of operate on. Or rules guides to get the results. You don’t want to over engineer this. I remember hearing a thing there’s a guy Tim Reid, who runs a little company called Netflix – no. Reed Hastings, I believe, was his name. And he talked about this idea of he said when they first got started systemizing, they made their business dummy proof. They systemized everything. But the problem was he found that only dummies ended up wanting to work the business. So he kind of realized that if you completely dummy prove something, if you go to that nth degree, you also attract a certain type of individual. So there’s a real sweet spot there of getting the rules and the guidelines that help your A players to excel. But you also want to have great people. I would much prefer to have amazing people and good systems than amazing systems and below average people. Because the people also add to the mix and help kind of take it to that next level. 

Mario Fachini [16:30]

I agree 100 percent. And I’ve said that for years also. Because I was going to ask you this actually, too, because would you want bad people in great systems for any aspect of business, especially, one that help companies with copywriting, marketing, messaging. Who are you attracting? And it’s with everything. How you do anything is how you do everything. And if someone’s using the systems as a crutch versus a guideline, again, it’s going to fall back on you. However, if you have a celebrity All Star team, but they don’t know what to do, a lot of people think, “Oh, I got -” I was joking with someone before with sales. They’re like, “I want to hire a self-starter that doesn’t require anything, blah, blah, blah. And bring in a million dollars this year or this quarter even.” And it’s like, “Okay. Well, where do they sign up to onboard new people?” If you don’t even have something basic like that and core, it doesn’t matter what the company is. You need some sort of training. And people, the expectations are so aloof about one side or the other. It’s I’m glad you’re sharing on some real life expectations. 

David Jenyns [17:38]

And you touched on something there that’s really key. And I always – regardless of whether you’re talking about people or systems, I think, either way, it always comes back to systems. Because if you have a problem with poor staff, maybe you’re not attracting the right people, then the issue is actually still a systems problem. Because now you don’t have a good recruitment system for your team. You don’t have a good onboarding system and process. So there are also some real critical systems that you need to get right if you want to grow and you want to attract good people. So I’m starting to appreciate more and more the importance of culture. I used to think that it was something that only big companies really focused on, and a little bit airy fairy, and a little bit loose and hard to articulate. But for me, culture is all about the tone of the business and the way that your staff operate, and what’s acceptable and what’s not acceptable. Because when you get new team members on board, they look to what other people are doing around them and how they’re acting. And that helps them to decide how should they act, what’s acceptable and unacceptable behavior. So getting the right people particularly early on, particularly while you’re small and getting off the ground is so important because that will set the tone for the future hires that you get. 

Mario Fachini [19:02]

I want to ask you about hiring and recruiting. How do you attract A players? 

David Jenyns [19:08]

So there’s a few ways. It is a system as a process as you would expect. I like to think of it like a funnel. Almost like a marketing funnel. I know that’s an area of strength for you. So you instantly get this. This idea of at the top of the funnel, you want to tip as many candidates into that funnel as possible. So you’d write a job ad, you post it on some popular sites, and but you have a filtering process that takes them down the funnel as you move down the funnel, until you find your good, perfect candidate. So you run a job ad, you get them to fill out a questionnaire, you filter based on the responses of a questionnaire. If they make it to the shortlist, you give them a trial task. A little task to test them. See how they go and how they perform. Then you get them to send in their CV and a cover letter. And you filter again. Then you get down to a short, short, short, short list. And then you interview them. And you get down to the final stage when you’ve got a couple of candidates or one that stands out. And then you might put them on a trial period. Now, there are a little kind of distinctions along the way and a little things you can do to really set the tone. Like, the way that you write the job ad is important. That is your advertisement. So you want to speak to the right person to attract the right person. And you also want to embed systems thinking all the way through that process. So your job ad, I would put links to systems or processes that are relevant to that particular role. So you might put just one or two so when someone reads a job ad, they go, “Oh. And here are two or three things that I’m going to be doing as part of this role.” And if they don’t resonate with that right from the get-go, you know they’re not the right person. And there’s other little tweaks like that on the onboarding process that you can do to really present your systemized approach to business and then start to attract those A players. 

Mario Fachini [21:05]

Well, I appreciate you for sharing it. Because I’m always looking for ways to do things better for my business and the show. I know Expert Authority World has the same questions because a lot of people ask me this. They’re like, “How do you do this?” One of the ones I take a lot of pride in is the onboarding for the show for the VIP guests such as yourself, because there’s so many nuances. It’s like, how do you make a great episode? It’s not turn on a mic and just talk. I don’t even know how many. I mean, I could guess and it’s a lot. But it’s like every little thing matters. And the same thing when I’m hiring new people, like I’ve been doing, you absolutely want to see do they even listen to the instructions? Can they click that link? Do they go to the next one? Or again, are you hiring someone that is reactive and always waiting for you to just give them some order to do something. Versus autonomous, where they can go, “Hey, here’s something you didn’t even – ” I love this with my team. They go, “Hey, here’s something you didn’t realize about X, Y, Z.” I go, “Great. Let’s do it if you feel it’s going to be beneficial for us.” Because it’s not my area of expertise. It’s why I hired you. And I so appreciate that because I’m focused on what I do and it’s speaking, hosting the show, and stuff of that nature. It’s like if something changed in the last 24 hours in web design, publishing, cinema video, it’s like, “I’m not keeping up on every last little thing.” How do you handle that? 

David Jenyns [22:33]

Yeah. I think the way that I approach it because I approach everything with a systemized mind. And I think every problem within business is caused by a poorly defined system. There might be some systems or processes that aren’t even documented. Some are documented. Either way, if you’re having a problem, you can always bring it back to a systems problem. If you don’t have enough clients, you have poor lead generation system. If you have trouble selling those leads, then you have poor sales systems. If you have problems with your clients, and they’re constantly hopping on the phone, and you’re needing to reassure them, you probably have poor onboarding for that client to set the expectation. So as you talked about for this show – and when I complimented you just as we were off air before we started around the way that you presented that onboarding experience for the guests. And I bet what that does for you relative to a lot of other shows is it reduces the number of errors or questions that you get right up front. And you might not even notice it because they just nail it because you’ve put the work in once. It’s there. They now know how to show up with the right lights, with the right audio, with the right camera, how to make sure that they’re well presented to make sure that they match the quality of production that you provide. To the point where a lot of the interviews that I do oftentimes I’ll just be wearing a polo. But then you mentioned in your onboarding process where you’re like, “Hey, I want these to be delivered to a certain standard. And here’s how I’m going to look. And I don’t want you to show up and look underdressed.” And it was really professionally done in the way that you presented it. It was such that I thought, “Okay. Well, now I need to wear a shirt and a jacket.” So that is a great example of building a fantastic onboarding sequence. And that can actually occur in multiple different places. Anyone that you engage with, whether it’s staff, whether it’s with clients, whether it’s with guests, you can craft that experience which then, basically, engineers a better outcome for you, and it reduces errors, it saves you time, and it helps to grow your business. So it’s a win-win -win. 

Mario Fachini [24:48]

I want to throw in another notch there, if you will, or a bullet point or one of these the numbers, profitability. Let’s talk about what it’s done for your clients? Who is the biggest transformation story and what did it mean and profitability for them? 

David Jenyns [25:05]

So we’ve had quite a few. Some of the standout ones and some of the ones that I end up talking about in my upcoming book, SYSTEMology. One of the ones I talked about at the end of the book is a company – Jeanette and she runs a company called Diggy Doggy Daycare, or used to run. She’d been in that business, ran it for a little over ten years, got to the point where she thought, “Right. It’s time for me to exit.” We worked with her over a couple of year period as she started to systemize all of the different aspects of her business. And then she ended up attracting the corporate buyer. They loved what she were doing, because they said we can roll this out nationally, she just had the one location. Basically, what they do is they they look after – it’s a dog daycare center. So when people go off to work, people would come and drop their dogs, and then the dog would get washed, and walked, and entertained throughout the day. And this concept she had sort of developed, you know, there’s a lot of stakeholders as you could imagine in that business. You’ve got the clients. You’ve got the dogs. You’ve got the staff. She was really heavily working in the business doing as a lot of business owners do when they’re getting things off the ground, ridiculous hours, long hours, weekends, whatever, just to get it done. And we started to strategically remove her from the operations get her working on it rather than in it. She really tightened up the books. And then she approached a corporate buyer. And she managed to sell at a very high multiple for the exit. And the corporate buyer cited two things. The financial performance of the business and the systemized nature of it because they said, “We can now take this and then roll it out national.” But there’s lots of other ones like things like PorterVac and their roof cleaning company. They did something similar. This guy Gary from Ecosystem Solution. I love his story because he talked about moving net profit from 8 percent up to 30 percent by simply tightening that systems. Getting a clear way for delivery and onboarding clients. And he watched his net profits sore the bottom line just as a result of installing these. So there’s a lot on the site. There’s a lot in the book. Like, I mean, that was really big for me at each chapter. I wanted to make sure that I had a case study that really helped to underscore that particular lesson. 

Mario Fachini [27:21]

That is so amazing. Because I know there’s multitude of benefits, but the one everyone that’s an entrepreneur can relate to. And the goal of business is to increase the bottom line and grow the company. And then that’s, again, not the only purpose. But that’s what differentiates a job from a business is to grow profit, grow with the company. And a lot of people miss this. And I’m not saying there’s anything bad about doing it another way. But there’s so many people that don’t focus on the financials or don’t do this. And it’s like – or even make the investment. Well, it’s going to take a lot of time, energy, and money to do this. Yes, but you’re really losing tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars a week by not doing it. How much is it really costing you? 

David Jenyns [28:08]

Towards the tail end of the book, the last chapter, I developed a calculator to understand what is the financial impact on the bottom line for not implementing systems. Because systems touches every part of the business. And if you just create small wins very conservatively, you know, we’re talking 10 percent improvements in the different areas of your business from lead generation to conversion to a reduction in your operating costs. And through to increasing the chance that the client comes back. There’s a formula that you can calculate with very minor 10 percent wins that I’ve seen wins significantly larger than 10 percent wins. But when you compound it out and you look at the impact of, you know, a 10 percent winning leads, 10 percent in conversion, 10 percent reduction in some of your cost of goods, what that bottom line impact is it’s not 10 percent. It compounds on each other. And the bottom line is significantly more. So that’s one thing that I’m trying to be able to understand to try and help move systems up the priority list for them. As I said, it’s often seen as important but not urgent. And the only reason it is not urgent is because sometimes there is not an understanding of what the impact will be. 

Mario Fachini [29:30]

I’m glad you’re articulating that. And I’ll tell you from a marketing standpoint, because I’ve told audience – I’ve ran my mouth about this for audiences and even in some of my books, it’s like, add the financial and add the time aspects of it. If you say going to a networking event, speaking at an event, doing a podcast interview, talk to your team, and all these different things. People really only associate the financial with the sales leads conversions and what did we do. But everything is costing you money or making you money. It’s an investment or a liability. And it’s like, “Well, you know, I don’t spend money on paid ads because I do X, Y, Z.” I go, “Okay. Well, let’s add a time variable. How much time do you do it? Okay. You’re doing an X amount a month, which is X amount per week plus the follow up plus this blah, blah, blah. You’re now making $4.13 an hour.” “Hm. Maybe I should start investing in some paid ads.” “Yeah.” You’re losing tens of thousands of dollars a week by not doing this. But since it’s not there and it’s not in front of them every day, it’s like, “Oh, well, it’s not costing me anything.” “Yes, it is.” So where’s those calculator? Is it on your site you’re saying? 

David Jenyns [30:39]

Yes. Well, it’s one of the resources that goes along with the book. So they can head over to SystemOlogy.com/ book. And that’s a great way to learn more about the book. Obviously, it’s going to be on Amazon and get the links through to those resources. But what you’re talking to there is very recurring. I often see this problem with business owners, particularly when they’re starting up. It’s almost like they plaster over the mistakes for the business. And they make up for any shortcomings of the business by just working harder. They’ll work the weekends, the evenings, the mornings. And as you said, you know, they’re working for $4 an hour. That actually means the business is broken because they couldn’t go out and hire someone to do that job. So oftentimes, I try and say to business owners, if you can’t get your business working to the point where it doesn’t work without you or you don’t have single person dependency, then the business is actually broken. There’s something wrong with the numbers. Because you need to be able to have another team member. You need to be able to pay someone to come in and do that task and the business will still be financially viable. If it’s not, then you’re probably underpricing your services, you might be over delivering. You need to understand that just making up more hours to try and make it work is actually doing you a disservice in the long run. 

Mario Fachini [32:12]

Did I just hear you say over delivering can be problematic? 

David Jenyns [32:16]

If you’re not charging correctly. That’s the key distinction. I love to over deliver. But you got to make sure that you charge. Your job is to make sure that the business remains financial and financially viable. Because if it’s not a viable business, then you’re not going to be in business very long. You’ll go out of business. And who knows you’ll be partway through a project and you might not deliver for the client, because the numbers aren’t stacking up. So yeah, there’s definitely a fine line. I love the idea of over delivering. Also, I love the idea of charging what you’re worth. 

Mario Fachini [32:50]

I agree. And I’m just teasing you a little bit. Because most people are like, “Oh, the secret is to always over deliver.” But to what degree? Does that mean you’re reaching out to them when most people don’t? Because that’s over delivering. Is it adding value on the projects you’re working when you’re working on them? Or does that mean they’re taking up 30 hours of your week every week all year when it should be one or two? And even then, one or two, all week all year, that’s still quite a bit for pretty much everyone. Unless, whatever. That’s still a lot. So to know the numbers and know all of that is very important. And I’ve said that for years when I’ve told people to increase pricing. And they’re like, ‘Well, it seems like a lot.” I go, “You need to make sure you’re around three to five years from now because I know how much you care about your business. No one cares as much as you.” How would you feel if you weren’t around and one of your clients – and I usually named their favorite one – I go, “What if they had to go to -” and the name of the competitor. They’re like – because they know they care more. But the other guys charging more and positioning themselves better. 

David Jenyns [33:54]

Yeah. And businesses, I see this quite often as well, business owners often In times they, for lack of a better word – and I mean, I’m one too – a little bit of a people pleaser. You want to over deliver, you want to do well for the client. You also are running a business so you need to find sort of that middle ground. You need to understand that there’s a lot to running a business. That speaks to what we touched on earlier, Michael Gerber talked about this idea of the E-Myth, which is the entrepreneurial myth. Just that you think you can cut hair means that you think you can run a hairdressing business. But there are a lot of other skills required. And just because you can deliver the thing, deliver it to a great standard. And over deliver for the client, doesn’t mean that you’re going to be running a great business. You need to be solid at HR. You need to be solid at your financials. You need to be solid on your money. And you don’t necessarily nee – you need an understanding of all of the pieces. You’re almost like the orchestrator. You’re the conductor at the front who understands all of the pieces. And then you find the great team members who then can deliver on their particular area and play their instrument really, really well. 

Mario Fachini [35:09]

What is one of the payoffs of doing this? I know you’ve talked about increasing profit from 8 percent to 30 percent. And all the success stories. And congrats on all of that. But tell me about your personal journey. I mentioned it earlier on when you hired your CEO. 

David Jenyns [35:24]

Yes. The biggest thing and the whole reason I say for creating systems and it’s in the title of the book. Like it’s the subtitle. It’s to create time. There are other benefits. I’ve got create time, reduce errors, and scale your profits. But it’s the creation of time. Because as a business owner, there are lots of great opportunities that are coming across your lap that you might not even be aware of, because you’re too busy working in it. You’re so focused on just doing the work. Even if a great opportunity just fell in your lap, you would be too busy to do anything with it. So what systems and processes does is allows parts of your business to happen and get delivered to a great standard without your constant oversight. That then frees you up. So when you spot an opportunity, a strategic alliance, a chance to work with your favorite expert or industry leader, or write the book, or some of these really important things that only you can do, you now have space to do it. So I mean you touched on the idea earlier that I had the good fortune of working with Michael Gerber. He actually wrote the book – the foreword for my Systemology book. And he actually approached me to help him launch the last book in his E-Myth series called Beyond the E myth. And he happened to do it just after I appointed my CEO. So she was running the business and I was able to step away from mine and I worked three months solid very closely with Michael to launch that book. I did it as a volunteer position. Like, there’s no way that I could have volunteered because I saw it as a great experience to connect with Michael and get some mentorship. So I just stuck up my hand and said yes. I even flew to the States the last day of the launch and worked out of Carlsbad, California right near where Michael lives. And that, for me, was just a magical journey. It opened my eyes to a lot of different things. And that happened as a result of running a systemized business that got to the point where it worked without me. And then when that opportunity fell in my lap, I could drop everything and run for it. Which a lot of people just if that fell in their lap and said, “Great.” You can work with the Oprah in your industry. And you can do his joint project. A lot of people would just go, “I don’t have the time. I’m too busy.” And they wouldn’t be able to create that space. So I feel like that’s what systems really does. 

Mario Fachini [37:56]

That is awesome. And congratulations. And that just seems like a phenomenal opportunity. And I have no doubt. The other thing is when you do opportunities like that, they pay dividends for years and decades. And I’m fortunate enough to have done some of my own things. And they’re still paying dividends from 5, 10, 15, 20 plus years ago. And it’s like, how do you do more things like that? I mean, if you didn’t – I like systematizing. As much as I like creative and artistic stuff. It’s finite. It’s either yes or no. It’s right or wrong. There’s no ambiguous. It’s either going to work or it’s not. But if that’s not you to begin with, you should be falling in love with it after you do it because you see – you know, like I said, there’s dozens and dozens of benefits. And that’s just another one. So that’s a perfect segue to go into the Wheel of Whatever. Random questions that’s why it’s called the Wheel of Whatever. And check this thing out. It always ends where I need it to. Right there. So your question is, who else would you love to work with? You mentioned to us, Expert Authority World, working with the Oprah in your industry. Who else is someone you’d love to work with that you haven’t been able to yet? And what would you help them with? 

David Jenyns [39:18]

Actually, I’m reaching out at the moment, I quite admire the work of a guy called Gino Wickman. And he wrote a book called Traction. 

Mario Fachini [39:26]

Yes. Traction. 

David Jenyns [39:27]

Yes. It’s a great book. I’ve just reached out to him to get an endorsement for my upcoming book SYSTEMology. So I’ve connected with him. And I ran an event called The Business Systems Summit, and I had someone from his organization come and speak at that as well. And so I’ve got a little bit of a connection there. But I just like the way that he thinks. When I think about a book like Scaling Up, which was done by Vern Harnish, another great book in the space. What that book did is it just delivered a lot of tools. Whereas, I can tell that Gino has a systemized mind. He took what was in scaling up and then put it into a step one, step two, step three, step four system for the way your business should operate. So I’ve resonated with that message really, really well. I know he’s now working on a new project where he helps business owners make the leap from, you know, working your nine to five full time job to leaping over and becoming an entrepreneur and starting your own business. So he has moved in a slightly different direction than that I’ve headed. Like, I worked with small and medium sized business owners with small teams that have already made that jump. That said though, I definitely appreciate his work. So that that would probably be one that jumps to mind. 

Mario Fachini [40:41]

And what I like about what you just said there – and he’s awesome – you said you resonated with it more because he took the tech decks and systematized them to a one, two, three like we’ve been talking about the whole time. Both people Vern and Gino are great. But as a learner, you need to have it systematized so you can learn it because that’s the reason we read books and write books. So that way you get new information and can give it to other people. 

David Jenyns [41:11]

Yes. Spot on. Again, I keep coming back to it. This probably is just front of mind for me at the moment. But when I approach SYSTEMology, it’s the system for systemizing business. Because I felt that’s what was missing. It’s a seven stage process. It’s what do you do first, what do you do second. And you have to go through a system the first time you do something, because that is the – it’s like following a recipe. When you’re making a cake, the first time you make that cake – in fact, probably the first few times, you follow the recipe to make sure that you get the outcome. Once you’ve done it enough times, then you start to internalize it. And then you might just start to make some tweaks and modifications because you now understand what the existing system will create, what the outcome of following that set of instructions for making the cake. But then, you know, someone who’s been cooking that cake for years might then start to make the adjustments and go, if I add a little bit more of a pinch of salt here or some extra sugar there that makes the outcome significantly better. But the first time you go through something, it’s not just enough to say, here are the tools. It’s, what do I do first? What I do second? And that really helps the first time learner get the outcome. 

Mario Fachini [42:23]

I can relate to that. I’ve done five books personally. And the first four, you know, I did a good job I’d like to think. And they were all cool and everything. But the latest one – when I did Expert Authority Effect Publishing, I kept saying I’m publishing a book on book publishing. And as I’m doing it, I’m like, “Is there anything I’m missing?” Because this would be beyond bad when you’re given the instructions of how to do it. And it’s like your example, the cake, you’d leave out the eggs. Like, “Oh, shoot. I just cracked them. They’re right in front of me here on the screen.” And I left that step out. 

David Jenyns [43:00]

It reminds me of, I think, it was the Seinfeld episode where Kramer wrote the coffee table book about coffee tables. 

Mario Fachini [43:08]

Yeah. Some of this stuff is so ironic and hilarious. But at the same time, when you get it right, I mean, you’re taking people, like you said with Gino, and going from this is good and this is great for you. 

David Jenyns [43:21]

Yeah. Exactly right. 

Mario Fachini [43:22]

And that’s what people want to be hitting on. So thank you so much for sharing what you have. We’re going to thank the sponsor and come back for the Imperfect Action Round. 

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Mario Fachini [44:43]

And we are back with the Imperfect Action Round. David, are you ready to take imperfect action? 

David Jenyns [44:48]

Ready to rol. 

Mario Fachini [44:50]

Number one – 60 second rapid fire – what is the fastest path to the cash? 

David Jenyns [44:55]

The fastest path to the cash is to remove the business owner. The sooner you can figure out what your core product or service is, and the sooner that you can systemize the delivery of that, the sooner you reach the cash. 

Mario Fachini [45:07]

Excellent. Number two, what is the biggest problem you see your prospects making and the fastest way for them to fix it? 

David Jenyns [45:13]

The biggest problem is the overwhelm of systemization. And not knowing where to start. And thinking, you know, this is all too hard. I’m not a systemized person. And the easiest way to solve that problem is to just simplify. And we have a process called the critical client flow. And you, literally, on an A4 bit of paper, map out the journey that the client and the business goes through to deliver your core product or service. You map that on a paper. Just focus on systemizing that. And you’ll solve that problem. 

Mario Fachini [45:44]

Excellent. Number three, profitability. What is the best way to maximize customer lifetime value? 

David Jenyns [45:52]

The best way to maximize the lifetime value is to deliver a great customer experience. If you have a great journey for that client, and they enjoy the process, and they get the outcome that they paid for, then that will get them to come back. And then that gives you a great lifetime. They’ll be more likely also to refer business as well. So you really just want to deliver on your promises. 

Mario Fachini [46:17]

Excellent. Books in general, whether they’re business or not, which ones have impacted your life the most? 

David Jenyns [46:24]

The ones and we touched on a couple. I think, Traction and Scaling Up are great in the systemization space. I couldn’t go past saying me the E-Myth as well with Michael’s work. There have been some good one, from a personal power. I mean, that’s a Tony Robbins book from way back when. So many books. 

Mario Fachini [46:46]

Excellent. Well, I appreciate everything you’ve shared. You’ve given us a lot of great Expert Authority Insights. Where would you like people to learn more about you and your company? 

David Jenyns [46:56]

Yeah. The best thing to do, just the easiest place to get started is to get a copy of the book, just head over to SystemOlogy.com/ book. You can grab a couple of free chapters there. And if you want, you can also head over to Amazon, it’ll be listed on there. And audible as well, if you prefer the audio version as well. That really is the best thing. It just outlines my framework in its entirety. You will get tremendous value. And it is very much so far my 20 years experience in business, running, buying, building, systemizing, selling businesses, all of my knowledge condensed into one book. 

Mario Fachini [47:33]

Excellent. Well, I’m excited to get a copy myself. And thank you for writing it because I know what goes into all of that. And I know it is not a ten minute process that you do in between phone calls. So thank you for that. 

David Jenyns  [47:48]

Plus years. They’re slow and painful. Maybe I have one more book in me in my lifetime. I think I take my hat off to you for writing five, that’s for sure. 

Mario Fachini [47:57]

Well, I appreciate that. Thank you again so much. And it was great having you. 

David Jenyns [48:03]

Pleasure. Thank you for having me. 

Mario Fachini [48:06]

All right. Expert Authority World, we have another great episode here today. I’ll see you tomorrow. Have a great day and God bless. 

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www.EAInterviews.com [49:04]

Hey, thanks for listening to today’s episode. I hope you got a lot out of it. I know I sure did. If you haven’t done so already, I invite you to subscribe to the show. And also be sure to check out EAInterviews.com for complete show notes, the full interview video experience, links to the resources we mentioned, and more. Have a blessed day and I’ll see you tomorrow.